Do Magic Item "Shops" wreck the spirit of D&D?

Emirikol said:

My point is that 'because' of magic shops where PC's can pick up anything official on a whim, it's no longer special.

I cannot think of any way, without eliminating or severely restricting magic shops, to "give items that PC's want to keep."

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Then you're not trying hard enough.

In my Eberron camapaign, because the PCs are in Sharn, magic items shops are available. And every PC has at least one unique item which provides abilities that no item from a shop can provide, ranging from heirloom swords that increase in power with the wielder, to a millennia-old harness that has grown into the warforged's body and permanently modified it, to a necklace that gives the wizard access to every spell in the PHB and some non-PHB ones, to a living parasitic armband which absorbs nutrition from the wearer and provides significant benefits, etc. The PCs enjoy buying and selling many items. And they have also never considered selling the items that are unique to them, are tied into their past adventures and provide avenues to consider for the future, and also provide benefits that no shop-bought item does.

Quite commonly we get one of these threads whining about the supposed problem of magic item shops in the game. I've always thought that if the effort put into the thread was instead put into thinking about one's game and dealing with it, things would be better for all concerned.

The way I'll be doing it is that I'm not gonna have an a la carte magic shop, but if the PCs can get in friendly with a wizard or sorcerer in town that can craft the appropriate magic items, and they have the money and time to wait for the item to be crafted, then "I'll see what I can do".

In the meantime, there won't be any "gimme the DMG, I need to see if there's a magic item that will do X". It will be left to the PCs to suck up to the spellcaster in question and figure out what they want / need.

MerricB said:

Err... he sells a magic dagger. He buys another magic dagger. Sounds like 3e, with the abstraction prettied up for the book.

Cheers!

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Actually he loses the first dagger by throwing it at a Sea Serpent, he didn't sell it. When he goes to the weapon dealer (not a magic shop), he tells him about the magic dagger and asks if he has anything special like that. He gets offered a half-dozen or so knives that have various abilities but mostly duplicating abilities. Gord wasn't offered one of every type of knife at varying degrees of enchantment, he was offered what the guy had in his limited stock.

If by "shops" where you "buy" magic items, you mean "dungeons" where you "kill things" for magic items, then yes.

Actually, come to think of it, buying/selling is abstracted more than anything else. I just assume that the rogue or wizard in the party knows a guy, who knows a guy, who has it.

Magic shops don't, by themselves, wreck the spirit of the game. The idea that any item worth X gp or less should be available at such shops, does, in my opinion.

I was introduced to this concept in the last game I played in. It was my first experience with 3E as a player. After the initial shock wore off, the fun drained right out of the game for me. I found that rather than gazing longingly through the item lists, wondering whether our group might find this one or that, deep within some gods-forsaken subterranean labyrinth... I was presented merely with an optimization problem: buy the items that would maximize my numbers. And even though I hated doing so, I had no choice if my character was to be at all effective. Because the other players were. The pressure to munchkinize was dreary and oppressive.

And the treasure hordes we found were as magical as paper squares stamped with gp values. It was irrelevant what magic items we found; we sold them to buy others of our choosing.

I like many things that came with 3E (including attacks of opportunity), but this is one of the few that really, really disagrees with me.

Yes...

I don't believe Wal Magic is an even remotely believable idea...why would anyone sell a magic item? To get a better one? Why not use it to reward a retainer and bump their loyalty/morale? Not that magic items aren't available, but there isn't a counter in the back under glass and an exploding runes symbol that reads "Consult employee before handling.', but that if there are items available, they are probably stolen and being sold by 'Vinnie' from a moving cart at a street corner or back alley near you.

Does it kill the spirit of the game? I won't even touch that, because that IS a personal POV and an argument one way or another. The defiying of logic is my reason, again personal, YMMV.

Thunderfoot said:

Yes...

I don't believe Wal Magic is an even remotely believable idea...why would anyone sell a magic item?

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... because they found one that they can't use. Unless they happen to hold some sort of feudal rank of nobility, NPCs are no more likely to have retainers than PCs are. And even if they do have some, it's unlikely that a dragon's horde contains glasses of beuaracracy or a rod of agriculture that a typical feudal estate's managers could actually use.

I cannot think of any way, without eliminating or severely restricting magic shops, to "give items that PC's want to keep."

Stoopid shiny silver sword with ritual runes...yea, gonna sell that one....

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Try harder. Give your players things tied to their past, things with unique powers, things relevant to various plots that are going on in the game world. Things they make themselves, things that are slightly dangerous to use.

And if they're not interested in any magic item, and prefer gold, I'd wonder exactly how much you're charging these guys for daily missions.

I don't believe Wal Magic is an even remotely believable idea...why would anyone sell a magic item?

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Why would the party wizard give the party fighter a +1 sword? Because the party fighter can make better use of it. Why would the retired NPC adventurer sell the party their old boots of striding? Because he doesn't need 'em.

There's a market for it, and there is a craft that makes them. Spellcasters make 'em. Adventurers buy 'em.

Emirikol said:

Do Magic Item "Shops" wreck the spirit of D&D?

Does the overcustomization and overtwinking of the game wreck the spirit of the game? Does it just become a Mario-Bro's game where you're just trying to get enough "coins?" Can you hear the blinging sound in your campaigns?

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It depends on how you handle them, but done in the made-to-order anything-goes way that would result in your scenario, yes, it does.

This Thread Is Much Better With Graphics

THIS THREAD IS MUCH BETTER WITH GRAPHICS RELEVANT.

Anyone care to create an opposing humorous graphic?

jh