A Flanker of One

Andor · Apr 30, 2008

I just noticed something in the PHB II.

The Adaptable flanker feat (PHB II pg 74) lets you threaten from both the space you are in, and from one that you threaten. So am I correct in reading this to mean that a Rogue with this feat who was weilding a reach weapon, and still threatened his adjacent squares (armour spikes perhaps, or improved unarmed combat) could designate the space on the opposite side of a medium or smaller foe as his flanking square and thus flank the foe all by his lonesome, granting sneak attack and +4 to hit (by virtue of the vexing flanker feat, which is a prerequisite)?

R = Rogue
M = Medium Monster
F = Designated flanking spot

. . . .
RMF.
. . . .

Folly · Apr 30, 2008

You would have to do this with a spiked chain, since with any other reach weapons you would not threaten the square directly next to you. With a normal reach weapon you wouldn't threaten the M square.

Hypersmurf · Apr 30, 2008

Andor said:
The Adaptable flanker feat (PHB II pg 74) lets you threaten from both the space you are in, and from one that you threaten.

A question that comes up here is "What does it mean, to threaten?", or, more specifically, "Do you threaten a square if you can't make an AoO into it?"

Since you can't make an AoO against a creature with cover, and the opponent provides soft cover for the square directly opposite you, you can't make an AoO against a creature in the square directly opposite you.

If this means that you do not threaten that square, then it's not a valid square to designate as your Adaptable Flanker position.

There's argument over whether you can threaten a square you can't make an AoO into.

Folly said:
You would have to do this with a spiked chain, since with any other reach weapons you would not threaten the square directly next to you. With a normal reach weapon you wouldn't threaten the M square.

That's why he's mentioned spiked gauntlets or IUS.

-Hyp.

Folly · Apr 30, 2008

Hypersmurf said:
That's why he's mentioned spiked gauntlets or IUS.

I missed that the first time I read though. I am not certain a spiked gauntlet would work since your hand with the gauntlet is busy with the reach weapon, since to wield the reach weapon (and thus threaten with it) you have to use both hands. IUS, and armor spikes work since they are do not require a hand to function.

The argument that you suggest says that cover prevents you from threatening a square. After reviewing the section describing cover, AoO, and threatening, I wasn't able to find any hard rules saying as much. How one interprets cover preventing AoO is going to vary from DM to DM, but if need this build can pick up 1 level of Exotic Weapon Master.

Folly · Apr 30, 2008

Interestingly, if the creature with the feats is larger than the target he can threaten a flanking position and be in the flank without having cover. You do this across a diagonal of the creature. It requires the larger creature to align one of his sides with the smaller creatures sides (unless the larger creature is significantly larger). Then the creature due to having greater reach will be able to reach the row behind the smaller creature. Since cover with reach is from a corner to all 4 corners of the target, the larger creature picks the corner on the aligned side and thus threaten a square on the row behind the smaller creature. At the same time, since the larger creature is wider than the smaller creature, it will end up occupying the square on the opposite side of the threaten square in that arrangement.

blargney the second · Apr 30, 2008

Okay, add Precise Swing (ECS) to the rogue in the OP. Precise Swing basically negates all effects of cover on melee reach attacks.

frankthedm · May 1, 2008

Flanking
When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by a character or creature friendly to you on the opponent’s opposite border or opposite corner.

When in doubt about whether two friendly characters flank an opponent in the middle, trace an imaginary line between the two friendly characters’ centers. If the line passes through opposite borders of the opponent’s space (including corners of those borders), then the opponent is flanked.

Andor · May 1, 2008

frankthedm said:
Flanking
When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by a character or creature friendly to you on the opponent’s opposite border or opposite corner.

When in doubt about whether two friendly characters flank an opponent in the middle, trace an imaginary line between the two friendly characters’ centers. If the line passes through opposite borders of the opponent’s space (including corners of those borders), then the opponent is flanked.

Yes, but what does that have to do with the feat/weapon setup in question?

Dice4Hire · May 1, 2008

Andor said:
Yes, but what does that have to do with the feat/weapon setup in question?

It means the answer to your question is no. Unless you think Adaptable Flanker makes you two different characters.

jaelis · May 1, 2008

Here's what the Sage says.

Can a character with the Adaptive Flanker feat (Player’s Handbook II, 73) and a spiked chain flank an enemy all by himself (since he can choose to count as occupying the square opposite the enemy as well as his own square)?

No. This feat doesn’t let you get around the basic rule of flanking, which is that you need an ally to accomplish it—it just lets you pretend to occupy an extra space when figuring out if you’re actually flanking an enemy with your ally.

A Flanker of One

Andor

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Folly

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Hypersmurf

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Folly

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Folly

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blargney the second

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frankthedm

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Andor

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jaelis

Oh this is where the title goes?

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