Computers, Projectors, and Battle Maps.

I wanted to chime in to disagree with Steel Wind about the difficulty of putting together a map on the fly in MapTool. I respect Steel Wind's advice a lot on projector setups, but I've very easily put together quick, good-looking maps in MapTool. One example is in this post, where I put together an encounter on the fly and took 10 minutes to do everything - decide what I wanted the encounter to look like, draw the map, create the monster tokens (based on other existing tokens).

Obviously this is quicker to do the more experienced you are with MapTool, but that's going to be true of any tool.

I'm sure it's also very easy to generate great maps on the fly in Neverwinter Nights, but that doesn't mean that it's not easy and fast in MapTool.

Oryan77 said:

I may just need to make a trip to the store to view these tvs in person. I have actually been considering buying a new tv for my wife to watch in another room when I'm bothering her with my xbox in the living room.

I could use it as a game table also. What would you suggest I use on top of it as far as glass/plexiglass so we don't mess up the tv?

And do you know of any problems with a tv being on its back like that for long periods of time?

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If you look at the Samsung model in question, it appears to me that there is a 1/4" - (maybe 3/16ths" ?) of a recessed "dip" where the screen is lower than the surrounding bezel.

My plan was to have a piece of plexiglass (or maybe two of them sandwiched together) which I could cut so that they "fit" this hole and lay them down on top of the recessed screen.

The outer plexiglass layer would have "a lip" which would be larger than the recessed part of the screen so that the plexiglass was being supported by the bezel and not just bearing all the weight on the screen. That plexiglass "sandwich" would also:

1 - be pre-gridded with 1" grid (insert a 1" grid printed on transparency film in the middle of the plexiglass sandwich, perhaps); and

2 - act to protect the screen during use

I'm not CERTAIN that would work, but that was my current idea. I'm rather confident that approach would work.

I'll ask my podcast co-host Azmyth about this tonight. He's a professional AV/Home Theatre guy and installs ridiculously expensive high-end systems in CEO's homes so this is his core business. I think he's even a Samsung dealer for that matter. Anyway, I'll ask him as to whether or not he thinks that approach might work.

The only real catch I can see in all of this is what you do with the wall mount bracket you would normally put on the flat panel. That's a real issue.

It's all well and good to suggest the back of the unit is contoured flat and so it will lie flat on the table. Well, that's true enough -- but that isn't the whole of the story.

Because if your plan was to use that flat panel as a TV when not using it as a battlemat? Then the flat panel is going to need a wall mount bracket attached to the back of it. If so, there goes your perfectly flat 1.12" profile. That is certainly going to detract from the ability to just plop it on the Kitchen table in all of its 1.12" thick glory.

Now, if you buy that flat panel for use only a battlmat? Well, then the question of what you do with the wall mount bracket isn't an issue (because it won't have one). My guess is that the number of us who can choose to dedicate a 46" flat panel LED TV solely for use as a battlemat is a pretty short list indeed.

When you can use the 46" flat panel as a big ass TV when not gaming once a week? The "wife factor" is a LOT less of an issue then if you try and reserve the thing dedicated solely to battlemat use once a week on Saturday evenings.

As for problems with it being on its back like that all the time? Azmyth told me that it's very unlikely to prove be an issue, and if it is, it is best deal with through the use of a few PC microprocessor fans clipped on to the top of the unit to assist in cooling when lying flat. Happily, LED's are very energy efficient and don't throw off so much heat that they will need active cooling.

Piratecat said:

Here's a question I think I already know the answer to. If you're too damn lazy to prep battlemaps ahead of time, is there any value to setting up a projector to shine down on the table? Can map-building be done swiftly on the fly?

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I'm partial to Maptools because of its fairly short learning curve (and price ). But yes, maps can be made very quick on the fly. Here's 2 videos which showcase just that:
Maptool Quick Maps 1
Maptool Quick Maps 2
These folks are rather experienced with the interface and keyboard shortcuts, but it doesn't take much to learn it that well. And of course it would be just as easy to do this as pre-game prep work. Not to mention that there are tons of pre-made maps available that can be dumped into Maptools just to take advantage of the easy grid movement and spell area templates without bothering to set up fog-of-war/line-of-sight blocking. The rptools and dunjinni forums are awesome for user-made miniature scale adventure maps.

Finally here's another vid (Digital Tabletop Demo) that uses Johnny Lee's wiimote whiteboard hacks to make maptools (and other programs) interactive with a projector.

The first couple of minutes just show interactively scrolling around maps. From the 2-5 minute mark they appear to use photoshop to overlay a dungeon map with a fog-of-war texture and manually erase it to show progress thru the dungeon. But fast-forward to 5:19 and see how you can use maptools as digital graph paper- but with snap-to-grid easy lines, texture fills, and the ability to pull the map over to the DM for easy drawing then slide it back under the PC minis.

I found this on the internet today.

PRODUCTS - SKIN | DISPLAX - Interactive Systems

Steel_Wind said:

If you look at the Samsung model in question, it appears to me that there is a 1/4" - (maybe 3/16ths" ?) of a recessed "dip" where the screen is lower than the surrounding bezel.

Click to expand...

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm now the proud owner of a Samsung 46" 5000 series TV.

I read your earlier reply today and then immediately after had to leave the house to take my wife to the dentist. While she was getting a tooth pulled, I took my son to Best Buys just to check out their TVs since this topic was on my mind. I wasn't planning on getting anything and figured everything I found there would be out of my price range.

Then there it was hanging on the wall, a Samsung 48" 5000 series TV with a red sticker marked down from $899 to $679. At first I asked a salesman about a TV that I could lay on it's back and he said anything like that would cost me over $1000 and most likely would be a 30". Then I asked him about the 5000 series I saw and he said, "Ya know, I don't make commission, so I'm not trying to get you to buy a more expensive TV. I actually just forgot we had that TV on display."

It was the last one of it's kind in the entire store. He mentioned the poor refresh rate but I told him that in my case, that is not an issue. So he said the TV would be perfect for me then. At that price, I had to snatch it up. Plus I had a $20 Best Buys gift card.

So I bought it and they took it down from the wall, wrapped it in bubble wrap, gave me a remote control, and I now have it sitting on my gaming table!

I haven't plugged it in yet. I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to use this thing & set everything up. I cut some black cloth that it can lay flat on. Also, I don't wall mount my TVs, so I have a stand for it. So staying flat is not even an issue. But it does seem a bit of a hassle to screw it back onto it's stand. Would have been nice if it just hooked on, but I have to take 3 screws out to remove it from the stand.

But I have to say, just looking at it sitting on the table powered off is exciting. The thing looks like it was built to be a battlemat. I can't wait to turn it on, hook a PC up to it, and set minis on it. I still need to get some plexiglass though.

What a totally unexpected buy. Thanks for the suggestion.

Oryan77 said:

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm now the proud owner of a Samsung 46" 5000 series TV.

What a totally unexpected buy. Thanks for the suggestion.

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Pics! Reports! Gleeful boasting!!

From the looks of the hook-ups and dealing with the dongle best, I thought a HDMI to the Samsung would be best. But that depends on your video card.

Either HDMI or VGA should rock.

Really excited for you man. Let us know how it looks and is working out for ya.

*BIG THUMBS UP*

Oryan77 said:

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm now the proud owner of a Samsung 46" 5000 series TV.

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CONGRATS!! This rocks.

As a faithful follower of SW's original thread and projector user for over 2 years I can still honestly say I'm jealous.

BTW what is the actual height / width of the screen? IE how many 1" squares can you get in each direction?


I'm currently getting 30 - 40 1" grid from my setup, but do have to admit the quality, while drastically better than Tac-Tiles is only 20pix per inch so not very detailed. But I was more interested in play area than detail.

I'm really liking the fact that flat panel TV's are getting to a usable price and transportable weight. I would love to roll in to my local convention with one to run a game.

I know I will be looking much closer at this when my projector dies.

JD

All I have done so far is set it on the table, hooked up a laptop, and loaded a generic map that is not scaled or anything (looks pretty close though). But here are some pics of it so far that actually seem impressive for doing very little setup.

I tried to show how it looks with minis, how thin the tv actually is, and how even though the tv is sitting on it's cables, it still lays very flat on the table. The thing doesn't rock at all. It's very stable. Oh, and btw, I have both of my halogen lamps on in the room. So my room is lit normally and the image on the tv still looks great. Not too bright, not too dark. Although you can adjust those settings if you want.

Looks really good!

I agree with SW on making a cover for it to keep from scratching the screen, even if all you use is plastic minis.

Depending on your gaming area / available table space, I could see a couple options for set up.

1. Build a low frame with 4" - 12" legs that it sits on, which then allows players to set their books/ character sheets and dice underneath out of the way.

2. Build a table that is drops into so it sits flush with the top of the table which then gives you space for books ect. (see above)

Damn, this is really making me want to do the same thing, but their is no way I could sell my wife on it after just getting her to let me mount the projector on the ceiling last year.

Just noticed you are in SJ, any chance you coming up to San Ramon for DunDraCon next weekend? (Feb 18th - 21st)


JD

WOW.

TV3.jpg tells the tale. About as gorgeous as it gets.

That panel is full of WIN