Discovery Trailer

One thing that always bugs me about the canon arguments is the tendency to cherry pick examples to support a criticism while ignoring any other examples. Take the Klingons for example. Yup, they changed the appearance of Klingons. For the FOURTH time. And, every time previously had no in world explanation and was entirely due to budget constraints of the time. Klingons had blackface in the 60's because that's what they could afford. Klingons went bumpy head during the Motion Picture because they had a lot more money to play with. But, suddenly, changing Klingon appearance is a big issue?

Earlier was mentioned the idea that suicide kamikaze style attacks didn't seem very honorable. Well, for one, there are numerous real world cultures that would disagree with that point. Kamikaze attacks were seen as the "glorious death" by a lot of cultures in many points in history. Hardly a stretch here. But, also, let's not forget, this is the same Klingons that a couple of years later have no problem sending in spies to poison grain shipments to cause an entire colony to starve to death (Trouble with Tribbles). It's not like it's out of character for the "honorable" Klingons to play pretty darn dirty in the show.

But, that brings me back to the issue of canon in Star Trek. ST has ALWAYS played fast and loose with canon. When the Ferengi were first introduced, a Ferengi Maurader was able to stand toe to toe with a Galaxy class star ship. By the end of DS9, the Ferengi (with some pretty heavy appearance changes along the way) are a joke race that everyone laughs at behind their back.

At what point do we step back and say that canon takes a back seat to good story telling?
 

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Unless you're counting Into Darkness, Klingons only changed once before, for the first movie. And STID has the same continuity allergy as Discovery and was another reality, so it doesn't *really* count.

And while they changed Klingons once for budget, that reason doesn't apply now. Because the old movies did have a budget. There was a lot of more alien aliens in those films, and Klingons were deliberately kept more human. The design could have been tweaked to match modern standards, but a complete redesign wasn't necassary.
There was no excuse or justification beyond “because the could”. Which is a pretty crappy reason to make a change to the second or third most well known alien race in science fiction.

But, of course, the budget reasons are irrelevant because the Klingon changes DID but the crap out of people. For decades. So much so they eventually devoted two episodes of Enterprise to explaining it in-World. And the Klingon changes in Into Darkness was also a complaint, albeit a lesser one because of, well, everything else that movie did.
This change now is making the same mistake they did in the 1970s and 2011 and expecting a different reaction from the fans.

It's not like the theoretical “new fans” will care any more about the less human Klingons. It's a change that is neutral for newcomers, and pisses of lots of old fans.
What's the benefit?

Okay. You don't care about canon. You don't care if Star Trek follows it's legacy of thirty years of stories and acknowledges the stronger canon of the 1990s and 2000s. I get that. May I suggest you instead watch the reboot movies, as that's their deal. Or perhaps any other television show ever made. For those of us who like continuity and love the idea of a show with 30 years of history... there's not a lot of other options. Even Doctor Who is a bad example, being more loose with continuity than 1960s Trek...

Trek continuity was an evolving thing in the ’80s and ‘90s. Yeah, it had hiccups and changes but it tried it’s best to respect the past. To build on what was established.
Does canon need to take a step back to good storytelling? No. I don't think so. I think continuity is a tool. You can tell good stories and stick closely to canon as well. They’re not mutuality exclusive. It just requires a little research.
Like writing a historical drama. You can bend history a little and fudge some small details when necassary. But if you tell a WWI drama with jet fighters against the zombie armies of the Nazis then you may be drifting from what happened.

After all, Discovery is drifting pretty hard from canon and it hasn't automatically made the writing any better. Generally if someone isn't willing to put the work in to research, they're probably not going to put the work it to turn in a polished, solid script.
 

Again, if they wanted to do a Star Trek show and not be bound by continuity they could have set it in the farther future after Nemesis.
Or in the 100 period between Enterprise and TOS where nothing was firmly known.
Or used the film timeline but gone ahead 20 or 30 years.
Or used their own alternate reality as many exist.
Or just declared certain things non-canon like Star Wars did when it was sold to Disney.
Or just left it vague and allow views to decide for themselves if it was in the regular reality or not...

But they didn't. They explicitly sold the show as being part of the Prime Timeline. They used continuity as a selling point.

It feels as much like any of the classic Treks as the new Battlestar Galactica did the original. Or Arrow and Flash feel like the comics. It feels like a bad adaptation, where a lot of the names are the same but continuity is really just easier eggs. “Hey, there's a Tribble on the desk, eh?” Or “hey, look” we showed a picture of a ship that kinda sorta looks like a Constitution ship.” But they're just there for dressing. It's a generic science fiction show dressed up like Star Trek. Just like the Orville is a Star Trek show dressed up like a generic science fiction show.
If you can get over that hurdle and enjoy it, then fine. Good for you. But I really want more Star Trek that feels like goddamn Star Trek and not BSG or the Expanse. And I’m saddened I’m likely never going to get that again.
 

Heh, if you think that Klingons only changed once, you haven't really watched Star Trek. There are galleries out there devoted to the differences in appearance of Klingons across the shows and movies.

Look, I get not liking something. Sure, no problem. But, this just seems a really strange thing to worry about. Star Trek canon has never been terribly tight. There's canon holes all through the shows. Appearance changes for no reason, conveniently "forgetting" past solutions that would invalidate plots, character changes, heck, ACTOR changes (Worf's son got played by what, four different actors, none of which look anything alike.)

To me, this latest plot is pretty classic Trek. Do you remain true to the Federation or do you wipe out the Klingons. Having the moral high ground is easy when it's not tested. DS9 explored this really well in the Dominion war. Do they commit genocide on the Founders or risk being over run by them? Moral quandaries are pretty much part and parcel to Trek AFAIC.

And, lastly, as far as the writing not being better? Seriously? I'll stand this season up against the first season of any Trek series. I think nostalgia glasses have caused people to forget just how bad the first season of TOS, DS9, Voyager and Enterprise really were. They were practically unwatchable. I know because I just recently forced myself to rewatch them. It's brutal.
 

To me, this latest plot is pretty classic Trek. Do you remain true to the Federation or do you wipe out the Klingons. Having the moral high ground is easy when it's not tested. DS9 explored this really well in the Dominion war. Do they commit genocide on the Founders or risk being over run by them? Moral quandaries are pretty much part and parcel to Trek AFAIC.
That's what the season could have been about. That's what they hinted it was about. But so far that hasn't really been demonstrated in the show. That's something the views are adding that isn't really there. Reading between the lines...

In terms of the "message" of being scientists and explorers rather than warriors, the show has exclusively relied on tell and not show for that, occasionally just having some character interject that as a throw-away line rather than actively making it a thematic aspect of the series or showing Starfleet as being awkward at battle. They never have to choose between the science and a battle.
The show really relies on telling. We're told the Klingons are winning the war the effects of that aren't really seen. Then we're told Discovery has turned the tide, but we only see a couple fights. Then we're told the tide has turned back and the Klingons have expanded the cloaking technology.

And the season has actively worked against that message. Taking the Starfleet route led to war, while the untaken Vulcan route might have averted it. The war was almost won twice by Discovery (first with the jump drive and again by negating the cloak) because of the drive of an officer who was the opposite of what Starfleet stood for, being outright evil. Every single Starfleet-esque action taken in the Mirror Universe failed. The show punished them for those actions (saving the rebels, bonding with Mirror!Saru). And the most noble action committed by Burnham, when she saved the Empress, is likely going to bite her in the ass.

Meanwhile the show is plagued by poor characterisation and sloppy writing. Mysteries like the black badges are introduced and then quickly forgotten. Burnham makes a peace offering of Georgiou's telescope to Saru, potentially restoring their friendship, and it isn't mentioned again and Saru's behaviour doesn't change. Fridging one half of the first openly gay couple in Star Trek. Meanwhile, the writers continually rely on secrets to create cheap drama and conflict between the characters. And focusing heavily on the season long dum dum dummmmmm twists that the Internet saw coming a mile away.

Then you get to awkward episodes like the second Mudd episode, that really should have been a Stamets episode as he's the one who remembers the time jumps, but instead the structure of the show and focus on Burnham awkwardly make her the focus in an inorganic way

No, the writing has not been good.

And, lastly, as far as the writing not being better? Seriously? I'll stand this season up against the first season of any Trek series. I think nostalgia glasses have caused people to forget just how bad the first season of TOS, DS9, Voyager and Enterprise really were. They were practically unwatchable. I know because I just recently forced myself to rewatch them. It's brutal.
Then maybe you should also rewatch Discovery after it ends and see how it holds up during a second viewing, without being propped up with the uncertainty of what happens next. When you can just look at the writing and presentation of its ideas.

First, that's a fallacious argument: Whataboutism. The successes and failures of the other shows are not an indication of success or failure here. Reminding people that TNG had a terrible first season doesn't make Discovery's singular season any better.
And it overlooks the facts that TNG and DS9 and ENT all required production staffing changes to improve. They didn't just happen. Giving Discovery a pass means it isn't incentivized to improve or find a middle ground where they keep what people like about the show right now while correcting what people dislike.

And the "first season" thing really only applies to TNG. TOS had an excellent first season. It was arguably its best. Enterprise had a mediocre first season, but the second and third weren't much better. Voyager also had a mediocre first season. And second season. And third season. The fourth was only *slightly* better. The rest were just... not bad.
And even in its weakest first season, TNG did episodes like Where No One has Gone Before that was full of imagination. Or delving into Picard's past with the PTSD-esque The Battle. While it's gory and doesn't go anywhere, there's some good suspense and tension in Conspiracy. And Home Soil is a simple little bit of classic science fiction.

Discovery tries to do the extremely alien lifeform story in Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum, but as is standard for the show, the result feels poorly paced and crowded with the other stuff going on. And, of course, forces in a weird "twist" to explain Saru's behaviour.

DS9's first season was it's weakest, comparatively. But it was still very watchable with great moments. It's only "bad" because the rest were so much better. (And because its worst episode was right in the middle.) It's pilot, Emissary is arguably the best Trek pilot. The first four episodes of DS9 are quite good, and the you get high concept episodes like Battle Lines and the fantastic Duet.
The catch with DS9 is the first two seasons are really set-up. The Dominion is name-dropped in s2e07 and doesn't appear until the season 2 finale. They really wanted to establish the players and setting before jumping into the war.

And Discovery is in a weird situation, being plotted as a one-and-done season. The second season will almost be a re-pilot, as the whole premise of the show will shift as the war has ended and there's no looming Mirror Universe plot. So it's almost a second first season with a couple established characters. We'll see how that does in 2019.
 


Using the doll show me where the show hurt you eb5d_star_trek_plush_enterprise.gif
 

That's what the season could have been about. That's what they hinted it was about. But so far that hasn't really been demonstrated in the show. That's something the views are adding that isn't really there. Reading between the lines...

In terms of the "message" of being scientists and explorers rather than warriors, the show has exclusively relied on tell and not show for that, occasionally just having some character interject that as a throw-away line rather than actively making it a thematic aspect of the series or showing Starfleet as being awkward at battle. They never have to choose between the science and a battle.
They showed the conflict between science and battle when it came to the conflict between Lorca and Stamets, or the conflict about the use and fate of the Tardigrade.
They showed the conflict between battle and truth when it came to Stamet's treatmant and its fallout, how people were ordered to act against the rules to save them.

The show really relies on telling. We're told the Klingons are winning the war the effects of that aren't really seen. Then we're told Discovery has turned the tide, but we only see a couple fights. Then we're told the tide has turned back and the Klingons have expanded the cloaking technology.
I think they pretty clearly show the tide turning by example. The first succesful tactical use of the Discovery's spore drive turns a defeat potentially killing thousands to civilians into a victory. That makes it pretty clear what the Discovery can do for Starfleet.

And we also see the turn of the tide by example, when the Discovery is trying to save the Gagarin but fails because the Klingon ships cloak and decloak, making it harder to actaully protect their allied ship from enemy firepower.

And we see again what a change the Cloaking tech really meant when the Discovery blows up the Sarcaphogus ship.

And the season has actively worked against that message. Taking the Starfleet route led to war, while the untaken Vulcan route might have averted it. The war was almost won twice by Discovery (first with the jump drive and again by negating the cloak) because of the drive of an officer who was the opposite of what Starfleet stood for, being outright evil. Every single Starfleet-esque action taken in the Mirror Universe failed. The show punished them for those actions (saving the rebels, bonding with Mirror!Saru). And the most noble action committed by Burnham, when she saved the Empress, is likely going to bite her in the ass.
Saving Sarek is a pretty much standard good-guys-would-do-this story and it works out well.

They weren't punished for saving the rebels, nor was their punishment for bonding with Mirror!Saru. Saving the rebels might not have worked in the end (though if I was a rebel, I would try to ask for a longer delay than I atually needed, just to be on the safe side), but not because they were "good guys", but because the evil guys struck earlier. And Burnham still got a deeper insight into the Klingon mind out of it then she had before.
Also, bonding with MIrror!Saru might have saved Burnham's life. (And in case you were confused and alluding to it- Burnham doesn't eat Mirror!Saru. How would Saru get aboard the Imperial ship from the Shenzou? He wasn't aboard Burnham's and Lorca's shuttle.)

And if you want to show good triumph over evil, you need to show how hard being good can be - the victory will come eventually, but it requires sacrifices and dealing with setback without sacrificing your ideals. If good was easy, everyone would be good. But being designed for a serialized format, the triumph of good can happen at the end of a season, not at the end of each episode.

Meanwhile the show is plagued by poor characterisation and sloppy writing. Mysteries like the black badges are introduced and then quickly forgotten.
mysters like the black badges. Or just the mystery of the black badges, Full Stop?

Burnham makes a peace offering of Georgiou's telescope to Saru, potentially restoring their friendship, and it isn't mentioned again and Saru's behaviour doesn't change.
I think Saru's behavior toward Burnham has changed considerably over the season.

Fridging one half of the first openly gay couple in Star Trek. Meanwhile, the writers continually rely on secrets to create cheap drama and conflict between the characters. And focusing heavily on the season long dum dum dummmmmm twists that the Internet saw coming a mile away.
The Internet seeing a twist coming a mile away means that the twist was well executed, because it didn't come out of nowhere, but was well prepared, with carefully placed hints. The writers didn't pull that out of their collective's asses, they did put in the work to make it happen.
I know a few viewers that didn't spend the time on reddit or other forums analyzing all the clues, and the twists still did surprise them - but not in the way that they felt they came out of nowhere. They just hadn't connected the dots (or noticed all the dots.)

Then you get to awkward episodes like the second Mudd episode, that really should have been a Stamets episode as he's the one who remembers the time jumps, but instead the structure of the show and focus on Burnham awkwardly make her the focus in an inorganic way
Quite the contrary, this was a very refreshing way to tell the story, because usually (and there have been enough to use the term "usually"), the time loop episodes always focus on the looper, instead of the individuals caught unknowingly in the loop.

First, that's a fallacious argument: Whataboutism.
No, it's not, because I think Discovery's first season is vastly superior to TNG's first season.

And the "first season" thing really only applies to TNG. TOS had an excellent first season. It was arguably its best..
First season TOS stood up pretty well IMO, too. They nailed the three main characters pretty well early on, I think.

But particularly TNG doesn't hold up so well. Discovery stands a lot better, with the main cast having found in their roles basically immediately, and the writers knowing how to interact with them.
 

But, of course, the budget reasons are irrelevant because the Klingon changes DID but the crap out of people. For decades.
It bugged some people. Let's not forget that the redesign that began with ST:TMP and continued through TNG resulted in the "iconic" Klingons that some people are kvetching about Discovery deviating from today.

This change now is making the same mistake they did in the 1970s and 2011 and expecting a different reaction from the fans.
Is it really a mistake to treat Star Trek as what it inarguably is? A work of fiction. Subject to reinterpretation and revision by each successive group of artists responsible for its production.

I mean, I think this is clearly a case where arguing against the results is warranted & justified. But arguing against the process borders on ridiculous. Re: the Klingons, the franchise has already seen them move from greasepainted swarthy Space Mongols who are also vaguely Soviet stand-ins to the more alien "honor Klingons" whose roots -- I think -- lie in that great non-canon John M. Ford novel and then got fleshed out further by TNG (with the caveat most of those insights came from Worf, whose Klingon identity was the product of not being raised by them).

It's not like the theoretical “new fans” will care any more about the less human Klingons. It's a change that is neutral for newcomers, and pisses of lots of old fans.
What's the benefit?
Where's the benefit of assuming all fans place the same importance on canon? Or at least "canon" as you're conceiving of it?

I mean, I'm a longtime fan whose favorite Trek will always feature styrofoam rocks, Tempra alien skies, and the Trinity of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy. But canon will always represent a tangential pleasure of the franchise, something fun to argue about, test my (aging) memory, etc.
 

.No, it's not, because I think Discovery's first season is vastly superior to TNG's first season.
Saying X is better than Y doesn't mean X is too. It doesn’t mean X is positive.

“Being shot in the gut sucks!”
“But what about being shot in the face? That's so much worse.”

Beating the flayed horse of TNG's first season doesn't change the problems with Discovery. It's just a deflection. Hence, logical fallacy.
 

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