D&D 5E Am I no longer WoTC's target audience?

I keep using the portmanteau Planejammer in various threads. It's not actually meant as a joke, well not just as a joke. If you mashed Spelljammer and Planescape together as a setting book I think it would be significantly cooler than either done separately, and also be more saleable to new players. Brush a little Treasure Planet vibe over the top and I think it would sell like hotcakes.

I don't bring that up because any rational part of me thinks that's what they'll actually do, but rather as an example of how they could treat older IPs. They don't need to be bound by previous convention if they don't want to be. I'd prefer a new (newer?) take on old ideas rather than just those same old ideas with updated crunch.

TwoSix said:

Wanting more material for your favorite setting has validity if you're looking for new material

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I've got nothing against people wanting stuff. There's stuff that I want, and I think I'm being valid in wanting it!

What I find a bit silly is when people extrapolate from what I want to what I think WotC should publish without any consideration of the motivations and constraints that apply to a fairly large commercial publishing and marketing enterprise.

pemerton said:

I've got nothing against people wanting stuff. There's stuff that I want, and I think I'm being valid in wanting it!

What I find a bit silly is when people extrapolate from what I want to what I think WotC should publish without any consideration of the motivations and constraints that apply to a fairly large commercial publishing and marketing enterprise.

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Quoted for posterity. Hit the nail right on the head.

Fenris-77 said:

I keep using the portmanteau Planejammer in various threads. It's not actually meant as a joke, well not just as a joke. If you mashed Spelljammer and Planescape together as a setting book I think it would be significantly cooler than either done separately, and also be more saleable to new players. Brush a little Treasure Planet vibe over the top and I think it would sell like hotcakes.

I don't bring that up because any rational part of me thinks that's what they'll actually do, but rather as an example of how they could treat older IPs. They don't need to be bound by previous convention if they don't want to be. I'd prefer a new (newer?) take on old ideas rather than just those same old ideas with updated crunch.

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My gut feel (and it's no more than that) is that the appeal of Spelljammer would be low and of Planescape not much more. I think both tend to take D&D away from the core experience which (presumably) is what the bulk of new players enjoy.

Related to that, I think that any new product has to be appealing to new as well as existing players. So any new product must, in some or other fashion, provide core D&D experience. Otherwise the whole 5e marketing strategy starts to collapse and become more like the rejected approaches of earlier eras.

On the issue of departure from previous convention, I think the 4e experience suggests a high degree of caution in that respect. If departures produce a hostile reaction from large groups of established fans, that can poison the whole well. I would look at something like Curse of Strahd as an example of how old but still well-regarded properties will be treated - closer to homage than to mere raw material.

Fenris-77 said:

I keep using the portmanteau Planejammer in various threads. It's not actually meant as a joke, well not just as a joke. If you mashed Spelljammer and Planescape together as a setting book I think it would be significantly cooler than either done separately, and also be more saleable to new players. Brush a little Treasure Planet vibe over the top and I think it would sell like hotcakes.

I don't bring that up because any rational part of me thinks that's what they'll actually do, but rather as an example of how they could treat older IPs. They don't need to be bound by previous convention if they don't want to be. I'd prefer a new (newer?) take on old ideas rather than just those same old ideas with updated crunch.

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Man, I'd be all over mashed up settings.

Birthright/Ravenloft - Those awnshegh domains are domains.

Al-Qadim/Dark Sun - The Loregiver has turned away from the Lands of Fate. Psionically empowered mamelukes control the cities, and even the magic of genies scours the land to ash.

Greyhawk/Nerath(PoL setting) - Really, just to make some heads explode.

*Deleted by user*

pemerton said:

My gut feel (and it's no more than that) is that the appeal of Spelljammer would be low and of Planescape not much more. I think both tend to take D&D away from the core experience which (presumably) is what the bulk of new players enjoy.

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The alternative view is ... SPACE PIRATES! Instead of travelling cross country to meet new and interesting people, kill them, and go through their pockets for loose change, the players can sail the planes of existence to meet new and interesting people, kill them, and go through their pockets for loose change. Well, admittedly demons mostly don't wear pants, so the pockets thing might be more of a metaphor. You can maintain that core experience, just add layer of fantastic destinations and maybe a flying pirate ship. That's one way to look at it anyway - call it Guardians of the Galaxy to the the rest of D&Ds Avengers and whatnot.

pemerton said:

Related to that, I think that any new product has to be appealing to new as well as existing players. So any new product must, in some or other fashion, provide core D&D experience. Otherwise the whole 5e marketing strategy starts to collapse and become more like the rejected approaches of earlier eras.

On the issue of departure from previous convention, I think the 4e experience suggests a high degree of caution in that respect. If departures produce a hostile reaction from large groups of established fans, that can poison the whole well. I would look at something like Curse of Strahd as an example of how old but still well-regarded properties will be treated - closer to homage than to mere raw material.

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To be fair, I think as iconic adventures go, CoS occupies a very different, and more venerated, tier than anything in the entire Planescape and Spelljammer settings combined. If I were WotC I probably wouldn't redo either PS of SJ individually - as you mention, there's probably not enough interest. Dark Sun maybe, but those two probably not (much as I love them). But a book that combines elements of both PS and SJ, with some Manual of the Planes thrown in? That's a book that most players, old and new, would probably be excited about.

All the above to say that we're actually in agreement, I'm just more optimistic (naive?), or maybe less hidebound, in my thinking about how creative WotC might be willing to be, or could profitably be to be more specific.

Fenris-77 said:

All the above to say that we're actually in agreement, I'm just more optimistic (naive?), or maybe less hidebound, in my thinking about how creative WotC might be willing to be, or could profitably be to be more specific.

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Fair enough!

To me, D&D space pirates seems precisely the sort of thing that I would look to a 3PP for. But as you say maybe I'm too conservative in my thinking!

Fenris-77 said:

If I were WotC I probably wouldn't redo either PS of SJ individually - as you mention, there's probably not enough interest. Dark Sun maybe, but those two probably not (much as I love them). But a book that combines elements of both PS and SJ, with some Manual of the Planes thrown in? That's a book that most players, old and new, would probably be excited about.

All the above to say that we're actually in agreement, I'm just more optimistic (naive?), or maybe less hidebound, in my thinking about how creative WotC might be willing to be, or could profitably be to be more specific.

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A manual of the Planes book that throws in Spelljammer and Planescape info would actually be pretty compelling. Less material on the Nine Hells and the Abyss (we know already!), throw in some Sigil and Realmspace.

pemerton said:

I thought that your second point (less content) is widely regarded as part of the reason for the first point (more popular). The causal connection is said to be accessibility, non-intimidating catalogue, and also well play-tested and market researched.

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Yes: while correlation is not causality, it is certainly suggestive.