D&D 5E Roleplaying in D&D 5E: It’s How You Play the Game

AbdulAlhazred · Dec 15, 2021

iserith said:
In D&D 4e, skill checks are often initiated by the player who ask if they can make one. The rules say this and also encourage the DM to say "yes" to the request (though ultimately the DM still decides if one is called for). Contrast with D&D 5e where that isn't said at all. The player describes, the DM decides if a check is appropriate. Players don't ask to make them. At best they can just ask if a skill or tool proficiency applies to an ability check for which the DM has already called.

Well, 4e PHB1 P178 says "The DM tells you if a skill check is appropriate in a given situation or directs you to make a check if
circumstances call for one."

That sounds a lot like what 5e is saying. The SC rules do talk about situations where a player declares they are using a skill, and some variations on that, and then recapitulates the above, basically, for the "if the player just tells you what the PC is doing in fictional terms." Either way the GM can go back and decide what skill is actually appropriate (or ability, etc.).

You can also see a version of the 3 step process as described by 4e on DMG1 P20, 1) Describe the Environment, 2) Listen to the Players, 3) Narrate the results of actions (this includes checks being made, though it isn't discussed in those kind of technical terms at this point in the book).

Actually, my interpretation of the 4e version is that step 3 can lead to ENCOUNTERS, not to checks directly. While 4e certainly doesn't SAY that there are only checks in encounters, it is actually somewhat implied that this is at least the primary place where they will be used. In my own game my rule is there are ONLY checks during encounters (but that includes challenges, which can be pretty extended).

AbdulAlhazred · Dec 15, 2021

prabe said:
I'm inclined to disagree. It is potentially useful to see how close your disguise came to fooling someone it was supposed to, to determine how to narrate that failure. It won't be useful for everything, all the time, of course--sometimes all that matters is success/failure.

Yeah, I think there are both types of situation. It could be that you do fine, but there's bad luck. You go out with a very solid disguise, but it starts to rain and your makeup gets a bit spoiled, and then you run into the cousin... GMs are really rather free to handle that as they wish. I mean, I guess a player could also narrate how they fail, though in 5e that isn't really something the rules talk about.

iserith · Dec 15, 2021

AbdulAlhazred said:
Well, 4e PHB1 P178 says "The DM tells you if a skill check is appropriate in a given situation or directs you to make a check if
circumstances call for one."

That sounds a lot like what 5e is saying. The SC rules do talk about situations where a player declares they are using a skill, and some variations on that, and then recapitulates the above, basically, for the "if the player just tells you what the PC is doing in fictional terms." Either way the GM can go back and decide what skill is actually appropriate (or ability, etc.).

You can also see a version of the 3 step process as described by 4e on DMG1 P20, 1) Describe the Environment, 2) Listen to the Players, 3) Narrate the results of actions (this includes checks being made, though it isn't discussed in those kind of technical terms at this point in the book).

Actually, my interpretation of the 4e version is that step 3 can lead to ENCOUNTERS, not to checks directly. While 4e certainly doesn't SAY that there are only checks in encounters, it is actually somewhat implied that this is at least the primary place where they will be used. In my own game my rule is there are ONLY checks during encounters (but that includes challenges, which can be pretty extended).

Check the most recent version of the D&D 4e rules - the Rules Compendium. There it is explicit as to the players asking to make checks the DM encouraged to almost always say "Yes."

Bill Zebub · Dec 15, 2021

prabe said:
I'm inclined to disagree. It is potentially useful to see how close your disguise came to fooling someone it was supposed to, to determine how to narrate that failure. It won't be useful for everything, all the time, of course--sometimes all that matters is success/failure.

It's sort of like using "I'll roll Perception" as a shorthand. Yeah, I can see how it's useful. AND the habit of doing that can reinforce misunderstandings about the game.

So, yes, I can see how voluntarily using an imagined "degree" of success failure to narrate can be convenient. But...it's also just a roleplaying cue. You could just as easily roll a secondary d6 and use that to inform the roleplaying. It might bother some people who are used to interpreting the number rolled as degree of success if, for example, you roll a 1 on the d20 and then roll a 6 on the d6 and narrate having very narrowly failed. But it wouldn't contradict the rules.

Nefermandias · Dec 15, 2021

iserith said:
Check the most recent version of the D&D 4e rules - the Rules Compendium. There it is explicit as to the players asking to make checks the DM encouraged to almost always say "Yes."

The skill system in 4e and 5e are only superficially similar. People can argue otherwise and maybe even use them both in the same way in their home games, but RAW, they are nothing alike.

I can run a whole campaign in 5e without asking for ability checks while 4e has specific rules that call for skill checks every time a character jump or cast a ritual, for a example.

Charlaquin · Dec 15, 2021

Lanefan said:
I disagree; in that a stage actor who is forced to follow a script and movement directions, etc. is still roleplaying, i.e. playing a role.

Being put on extremely hard rails by the DM doesn't stop or prevent roleplaying, it merely restricts where that roleplaying can go; in the same vein as the restrictions put on a stage actor who has to follow a script.

Eh, acting on stage is literally playing a role, but it’s not exactly roleplaying as the term is generally used. I would say it’s more roleplaying-adjacent. You’re imagining yourself as the character, but you’re not making decisions as you imagine the character would do; you’re sort of reenacting decisions that have already been made for you and that you’ve reverse-engineered motivations for based on how you imagine the character and what would lead them to make those specific decisions. That processes of constructing the character and their motivations may involve roleplaying though, especially if the actor employs some variation of Stanislavski’s system (commonly referred to as “method acting”).

Charlaquin · Dec 15, 2021

clearstream said:
Perhaps you might be able to see though, that it need not seem that way to all groups. And the text supports them as well to simply say - I use my thieve's tools on the lock. I'm no locksmith. I can't tell you what the approach is. My rogue character knows, though.

Since thieves’ tools are a pretty specific thing in the game world with a pretty specific use, saying you use them conveys all the information needed to determine approach.

Charlaquin · Dec 15, 2021

Maxperson said:
Lady Hawke

Which one?

clearstream · Dec 15, 2021

Charlaquin said:
Since thieves’ tools are a pretty specific thing in the game world with a pretty specific use, saying you use them conveys all the information needed to determine approach.

That's a reasonable observation. So it may be easier to see how for some groups, invoking a skill conveys the information needed to determine approach.

clearstream · Dec 15, 2021

Bolares said:
Doesn't 5e explicitly say that players call an action and the DM decides what check is made?

For the majority of ability checks, yes. Many game mechanics diverge from that.

D&D 5E Roleplaying in D&D 5E: It’s How You Play the Game

AbdulAlhazred

Legend

AbdulAlhazred

Legend

iserith

Magic Wordsmith

Bill Zebub

“It’s probably Matt Mercer’s fault.”

Nefermandias

Hero

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)

clearstream

(He, Him)

clearstream

(He, Him)

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