That is why dungeons tended to be wildly overstocked. It was assumed that something like 30-60% of the stuff would go unfound. That allowed players do do ok without needing to worry about the one thing they needed to find
D&D General What's wrong with Perception?
DND_Reborn
The High Aldwin
Experiences differ I suppose. In my games, often at least half the party is all "looking around the room" and I have them all roll checks, using the highest (in general). If multiple things could be found, the next highest roll is used, etc.
I've found it works well for me, while sometimes keep the high DCs not found, but sometimes also found.
Well, what are the others doing while the first is investigating? I just run it they are all investigation different areas at different times...
And if they can afford to take 10 times the amount of time, why not? Otherwise, yes, time crunch and wandering monsters could be a concern. IMO, 10 times shouldn't be auto-success anyway--personally, I never use it.
Well, I suppose this just depends on the adventure and game style. For example, in a room I might have a statue, a chest, a bookcase, and a section of wall that it seems should hold a secret passage maybe. Each PC will pick an area to check and roll, then move to the next, etc. in the narrative. Now, to make the rolling easier, I just have them all roll for each thing at the same time, knowing in the game they are actually shifting positions each time.
It's a fair way to run things, and usually how I do things when I write my own adventures. But sometimes other people's adventures seem very particular about when you can make checks.
I myself also allow the Help action and don't mind guidance being used for investigation, but I know other DM's are very averse to this sort of thing.
DND_Reborn
The High Aldwin
They're guidelines, not rules.
If they're guidelines don't work for my DM style (like much of WotC's published adventures), I do it my way.
I run Help requires proficiency OR the DC can't be higher than 20. If you have proficiency, the DC doesn't matter.
We limit guidance to once per long rest per PC, otherwise I've found it gets spammed way too much.
Thomas Shey
Legend
I suspect you're exactly correct, and further more that in many if not all cases, its not just perception. Its just as true, as I've noted, in most RPGs; the only question is whether Perception is covered by one or more skills, some kind of a trait, or exactly what. But whatever it is, to the degree it can be attended to without crippling the character in more central ways, its usually a priority.
Bill Zebub
“It’s probably Matt Mercer’s fault.”
You think it’s possible to design a game that wouldn’t frustrate some portion of potential players?
I’m 100% with @Benjamin Olson on this. Sure, there are places where I personally would like more complexity, but I teach a lot of beginners how to play and 5e nails it.
It’s not “lazy” design it just makes no attempt to appease the kind of long time alpha gamer who thrives on system mastery.
Ruin Explorer
Legend
Sure, but Perception is used constantly to detect all sorts of things, not just ambushes. My issue isn't "Perception exists", my issue is "Perception is wildly overused".
A good example of overuse is listening at the door or the like - if you listen at a door and some orcs are on the other side, having a conversation, you should hear them. No roll. No perception check. Your ears function. And RAW/RAI I think that's fine, but a lot of DMs, and a lot of adventures (including WotC ones) don't do that - they just have endless Perception DCs and Investigate DCs, and want you to roll them (or passively pass them).
Also loads of games have operated with a static DC, or no specialised Perception skill or trait and been just fine.
Bill Zebub
“It’s probably Matt Mercer’s fault.”
One non-official technique I often use is to have everybody roll, and highest roll is the one who spots whatever it is, and gets to react first.
glass
(he, him)
Perception I agree with, but Athletics? Maybe if it replaced Strength. Otherwise the last thing Strength needs is more things taken away from it!
I think you're rather unfairly painting "5e players" with a very broad brush there.
_
glass.
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Ruin Explorer
Legend
I mean, I had 2E players ragequit (at least temporarily) over taking one point of of damage. And it was common to see people play like this in 3E. So I'm not sure this is edition-specific, except in that 4E didn't have it because you simply couldn't play 4E that way effectively.
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