D&D (2024) What could One D&D do to bring the game back to the dungeon?

Incenjucar · Dec 14, 2022

Charlaquin said:
It was, but it was part of character progression. Part of the core gameplay loop of D&D is gaining levels and acquiring new abilities that make challenges you used to struggle with no longer an issue, which then allows you to reach areas you couldn’t before, which contain new challenges (which you will likewise eventually gain new abilities that allow you to overcome them, etc.)

I'm not sure how this works unless this is strictly primary spellcaster progression. D&D doesn't give most classes abilities that change things that drastically, they just make things a little faster like with climb speed.

Charlaquin · Dec 14, 2022

CreamCloud0 said:
but even with the current widespread darkvision and ease of unlimited light granting cantrips do players nowadays search every inch of a dungeon for hidden doorways and such?

Well, players nowadays aren’t really doing dungeon delves in the classic sense. If they’re going into dungeons at all, they’re mostly “N-Room Dungeons,” the gameplay structures of which don’t really incentivize searching every inch of the dungeon.

CreamCloud0 said:
time pressures can be imposed by things other than counting torches for light and i personally don't think they're really the most interesting way to do it.

Sure, time pressure can and should be imposed in other ways too. But it is beneficial to have multiple axis of time pressure. Makes the challenge less linear

CreamCloud0 said:
Edit: i'd rather be challenged by puzzles, the monsters themselves or narrative time pressure rather than because i didn't buy enough torches

That’s perfectly fine, but it’s a different play style than I think is implied in the phrase “bring D&D back to the dungeon.” Classic dungeon delving is almost more survival horror than heroic adventure.

tetrasodium · Dec 14, 2022

Incenjucar said:
I'm not sure how this works unless this is strictly primary spellcaster progression. D&D doesn't give most classes abilities that change things that drastically, they just make things a little faster like with climb speed.

I even quitted this earlier in a post comparing 5e & 2e light sources

Those aren't normally a spellcaster thing. 5e was designed so players don't need those & the math starts breaking down if they have them. Things get even worse if they start getting better & better versions of the thing they never needed to begin with.

Charlaquin · Dec 14, 2022

Incenjucar said:
I'm not sure how this works unless this is strictly primary spellcaster progression. D&D doesn't give most classes abilities that change things that drastically, they just make things a little faster like with climb speed.

It is primarily spellcaster progression, yes. Magic items can kind of slot in there, but it really is mostly spellcasters. If this is a negative (and I certainly think it is), there are basically two ways to address it: embrace team play and say you pretty much need a caster in the party to bypass some obstacles (and a martial to survive combat, and a skill monkey to avoid traps, and a healer to keep you alive), or make that kind of gate-and-key utility accessible to everyone, a la 4e rituals.

Incenjucar · Dec 14, 2022

Banning wizards in itself probably solves a lot. Banning primary casters even moreso. Get it down to only half casters and it might be almost doable.

Micah Sweet · Dec 14, 2022

CreamCloud0 said:
but even with the current widespread darkvision and ease of unlimited light granting cantrips do players nowadays search every inch of a dungeon for hidden doorways and such? time pressures can be imposed by things other than counting torches for light and i personally don't think they're really the most interesting way to do it.
Edit: i'd rather be challenged by puzzles, the monsters themselves or narrative time pressure rather than because i didn't buy enough torches

A lot of people hate puzzles, narrative time pressure can easily seem artificial, and I'd like more than one source (the monsters) as a challenge.

Micah Sweet · Dec 14, 2022

tetrasodium said:
No because there's nothing to gain from it. They don't need the treasure it might turn up. They don't need magic items. They don't really need to be concerned about traps because anything dangerous enough to matter is going to make the GM look adversarial. Even if they do have or want magic items PCs don't go through the old magic item churn that would incentivize them to find stuff. Even if the GM does try to make those things important though it's not rewarding because of all those reasons & the fact that it will probably break the game's math if they do.

Level Up fixes a lot of these issues for me, but I strongly suspect 5.5e will instead double down on them.

tetrasodium · Dec 14, 2022

Micah Sweet said:
Level Up fixes a lot of these issues for me, but I strongly suspect 5.5e will instead double down on them.

Yea I've been running it for about a year. There are a few areas I wish they went a bit further (ie OA>AoO, there's language in some maneuvers about not provoking but few class abilities not obviously casting spells have a good way of spelling out that shift). With the addition of "abilities" to the magic action in the cleric packet I suspect that 6e will double down too.

Reynard · Dec 14, 2022

Incenjucar said:
Which is kind of odd to bring up in D&D because Continual Light existed in previous editions.

It was a 3rd level spell,meaning that it was a serious resource choice after a significant time of not having access.

MichaelSomething · Dec 14, 2022

First off, ask why players and DMs left the dungeon in the first place.

D&D (2024) What could One D&D do to bring the game back to the dungeon?

Incenjucar

Legend

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)

tetrasodium

Legend

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)

Incenjucar

Legend

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast

tetrasodium

Legend

Reynard

Legend

MichaelSomething

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