D&D General please tell me about the old psionic classes?

Kurotowa · Mar 5, 2024

CandyLaser said:
2e took a lot from 1e, which in turn was inspired by (I think) the Vlad Taltos series by Steven Brust.

Rather unlikely, given the first book of that series didn't come out until 1988.

D&D psionics comes out of the plethora of psychic powered protagonists from golden age Science Fiction. John W Campbell helped shape so much of that era, and he had a personal fixation of psionic ability as the next stage of human evolution, so he pushed a lot of his authors in that direction. Books like Slan by A.E. van Vogt, the Baldie stories by Henry Kuttner, and many more showcased psionic powers at work. It even showed up in a lot of Science Fantasy stories, where the "magic" turned out to be psionic powers focused through superstitious rituals.

It's no surprise that early D&D, with so much pulp era influence, included psionic talents. And then it got carried forward as a tradition through multiple editions, mutating and being reworked every time. That's why there's no one answer about what D&D psionics is like. The question only begs another question, of which edition.

CandyLaser · Mar 5, 2024

I stand corrected! I think I was led astray by a misreading of this article attributed to "Nijineko Prismaticpsion" at Canonfire, which says

The combination of psychic and electronics put the feel of the word psionic solidly in the science-fiction arena, and indeed it was used and popularized in exactly this manner for years. Despite this, there are many fantasy works also using psychic phenomena (some paired with either science or magic) such as the Witch World series, Hiero’s Journey, the Deryni series, the Vlad Taltos series, and the Darkover series. (Most, if not all of which, are found in the famous Appendix N.)

I read that as saying the Taltos series was in Appendix N, but that's my error.

Demetrios1453 · Mar 5, 2024

The longest running 2e campaign I was in had a psionicist character. During play, it never seemed like she was either outshining the other characters, or being outshone herself. She'd be doing all these silent mind attacks while the rest of the party would be doing your typical magic and melee combat. I unfortunately never read up too much on the system, so I can't say much about the mechanics of it all, but it seemed to work well in play...

Hmm, the 2e Complete Psionics Handbook is on the DMs Guild. I may need to download it and re-read it sometimes. And, interestingly, the description states that a lot of the 2e Psionics were based on Julian May's Saga of Pliocene Exile series.

Mind of tempest · Mar 5, 2024

LuisCarlos17f said:
You should remember psionic manifesters without verbal, somatic or material components can be too subtiles. They could be infiltrated into a high society party and using their powers with wrong intentions and nobody would notice.

so about normal for dnd either for foes or players.

CandyLaser said:
2e took a lot from 1e, which in turn was inspired by (I think) the Vlad Taltos series by Steven Brust. They have a vaguely science fantasy feel, with powers named things like molecular agitation and chemical simulation. There's a touch of spiritualism in there too, with powers involving ectoplasm and ESP as well. 4e, on the other hand, had a bit of a shared aesthetic among the psionic classes in the form of glowing energy halos around the heads of psionic characters.
View attachment 349752
The psionics classes also (mostly) shared a mechanical identity. In 4e, most characters had a mix of at-will, encounter, daily, and utility powers. Psionic classes (other than the monk) traded the encounter powers for additional at-will abilities paired with the ability to enhance their at-will powers a few times per encounter. Each class also had its own gimmick on top of that: psions got to focus on telepathy, telekinesis, or psionic summoning and got some utility powers based on their choice. Battleminds could mark enemies and inflict psychic damage as punishment if their marked foes attacked anyone but them. Ardents could heal and grant lots of bonuses to allies after doing so. Monks got unique movement powers that let them flit around the battlefield and various abilities to ramp up their damage output.

the halo adds some clear identifying icon traits but feels a bit dull

Longspeak · Mar 5, 2024

tomBitonti said:
Reports are that it gave a nice other-worldly feel to certain creatures, but was a terrible subsystem for characters.

I can attest to the accuracy of those reports.

Kobold Stew said:
The thing with AD&D psionics (present in an appendix in the PHB) is that they were on top of other aspects of your character:
There was no pretense of balance....
It was a decidedly anti-fun system...

I tend to agree. At the time we were all Cool! Mindpowerz!! But looking over the rules later they just felt... tacked on. They were a whole new mechanic that didn't attempt to work with the rest of the game, they were more unbalanced than nearly everything else in the PHB, and they weren't... fun.

Not to mention the whole Hey, you some some kewl mindpowerz? Too bad, you don't get none! of it all. It was like... a 1% chance? Something lame like that. (I no longer have my 1e books.)

Looking back... I think they were trying to write something for Gamma World and slipped it into the wrong book.

Aldarc · Mar 5, 2024

I have only played psionic characters in the WotC era of D&D, and this includes Dreamscarred Press's psionic supplements for PF2.

I understand that some people see it as being redundant with magic. That's fine. However, I enjoy it because it provides D&D with a different aesthetic to magic. For the criticism that people have of psionics as "science fiction in my fantasy," I find this somewhat ironic since I tend to see the approach to magic of wizards in D&D as "too much science in my fantasy," where magic is treated more as a technology or tool. In contrast, I think that psionics does a better job of emulating more mystical traditions.

I quite liked the psionic classes from Dreamscarred Press. These included the familiar ones from 3.X - i.e., psion, psychic warrior, wilder, soulknife - but they also included a lot of new ones: Aegis, Cryptic, Dread, Marksman, Tactician, and Vitalist.

Mind of tempest · Mar 5, 2024

Longspeak said:
I can attest to the accuracy of those reports.

I tend to agree. At the time we were all Cool! Mindpowerz!! But looking over the rules later they just felt... tacked on. They were a whole new mechanic that didn't attempt to work with the rest of the game, they were more unbalanced than nearly everything else in the PHB, and they weren't... fun.

Not to mention the whole Hey, you some some kewl mindpowerz? Too bad, you don't get none! of it all. It was like... a 1% chance? Something lame like that. (I no longer have my 1e books.)

Looking back... I think they were trying to write something for Gamma World and slipped it into the wrong book.

the issue is like a lot of 1e to my knowledge they did not have anything before to work of mechanically and just because it feels more sci-fi does not mean it is, ego, id and superego are derived from an old notion of the three-part soul of greeks to my knowledge just refined into something faster to say.

now the randomness was flat dumb make it optional and a two role system one for if you want the possibility the second a guarantee but a random power and both with better odds of occurring as if you want no psionics have no psionics.

Alzrius · Mar 5, 2024

Longspeak said:
I can attest to the accuracy of those reports.

I tend to agree. At the time we were all Cool! Mindpowerz!! But looking over the rules later they just felt... tacked on. They were a whole new mechanic that didn't attempt to work with the rest of the game, they were more unbalanced than nearly everything else in the PHB, and they weren't... fun.

Not to mention the whole Hey, you some some kewl mindpowerz? Too bad, you don't get none! of it all. It was like... a 1% chance? Something lame like that. (I no longer have my 1e books.)

Looking back... I think they were trying to write something for Gamma World and slipped it into the wrong book.

Minor tangent: I seem to recall reading that psionics were the outgrowth of early D&D players who hated Vancian magic, wanting a spell-point system instead.

Mind of tempest · Mar 5, 2024

Alzrius said:
Minor tangent: I seem to recall reading that psionics were the outgrowth of early D&D players who hated Vancian magic, wanting a spell-point system instead.

sounds likely but unprovable.

Aldarc · Mar 5, 2024

Mind of tempest said:
the issue is like a lot of 1e to my knowledge they did not have anything before to work of mechanically and just because it feels more sci-fi does not mean it is, ego, id and superego are derived from an old notion of the three-part soul of greeks to my knowledge just refined into something faster to say.

The heavy use of Greek is actually something that I like about psionics. In some ways, it actually makes psionics more medieval feeling to me because Greek was being used in scholarship and magic traditions around the Mediterranean (alongside Latin).

D&D General please tell me about the old psionic classes?

Kurotowa

Legend

CandyLaser

Adventurer

Demetrios1453

Hero

Mind of tempest

(he/him)advocate for 5e psionics

Longspeak

Adventurer

Aldarc

Legend

Mind of tempest

(he/him)advocate for 5e psionics

Alzrius

The EN World kitten

Mind of tempest

(he/him)advocate for 5e psionics

Aldarc

Legend

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