D&D (2024) Psionics: What Do You Want?

Remathilis said:

That's still too similar for what I'm describing. I'm thinking more akin to a wizard using Vancian casting, clerics using the channeling mechanism of binders, druids using spell points, sorcerer using incarnum like chakras, Warlocks only having invocations (no spells or slots) like the 3e warlock, etc. But we accept that all of those classes use spell slots, up casting, VSM, etc.They are all using mending in some mechanical effect, even if the flavor is slightly different.

In the former case, where everyone is playing their own mini game to cast magic, I would expect psionics to look like the Mystic. But D&D doesn't, so I expect psionics to look like the Psion. But what I actually don't want is 10 classes using spellcasting and an 11th using mystic mechanics. That just makes psionics feel like a redhead step child.

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I was thinking the Sorcerer should use Spell Points and have the ability to sacrifice hit dice to recover spell points, directly, instead of hit points, actually. To represent the "Body Fuel" aspect a lot of characters go for. Which would reward Sorcerers with high Charisma and Constitution and leave them less Dextrous than most Wizards could comfortably be.

Of course, my system would still use "Spells" for magical characters in the same way it would use Combat Traditions for martial characters, as a significant dividing line.

Which then opens up Powers for Psychics and other functions for other concepts (if there are any)

Distracted DM said:

Ok this little screenshot convinced me to check out your psion

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You can get the full class for free by clicking the link in my signature.

I still think that the Warlock is the best design structure for any new D&D class: strong theme based mechanics with some built in versatility and progression that isn't overwhelming. So if I were to make a psion it would look a lot like the Warlock, with psionic powers replacing invocations. Bespoke powers rather than spells would help make it feel unique, while still being familiar enough to not put off players. I am not sure I agree that a psion "must" have the ability to dump power points in. I don't think that is any more "psionic class fantasy" than a wizard being able to pour their magical energy into a big spell. If anything, everyone needs the ability to overchannel at the risk of burning out (martials included).

Reynard said:

I don't want to derail the official announcement thread but I am very curious:

For those that are not happy with the "psionicist as spellcaster" paradigm, what is it that you actually want to see? Why?

And as a secondary consideration: is it just psionics that you want to be different? How would you feel if sorcery, miracles and spell singing were also completely different than "spellcasting"?

For the record, I have no dog in this fight. I don't actually care about psionics at all. I do think it would be cool if every form of magic was mechanically distinct, but I doubt that would ever occur. But I am very interested in the thoughts of folks that seem to care very much about this issue.

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Star Wars Saga Edition Force Powers (but 5e style spontaneous casting, not the ‘you choose Move Object 2 times so you can use it 2 times’ paradigm) combined with perhaps 3-5 psionic skills, and invocation style Talents, on a class framework that is a mix of the warlock and monk.

So you spend Focus to use a power, roll a skill check to see how powerful the effect is, and scaling is tied to getting stronger with the skills and getting more focus to spend to heighten effects. You’d also have basic Focus Techniques just like Monk that have at-will and costed uses.

Then, your Psionic Talents (invocations) and subclass features would give stuff like “cast this spell but differently and/or without spell slots” or extended telepathy, special senses, ability to create mental construct weapons, psychometry (including the ability to cast identify without components), etc

Base class would probably give basic telepathy and telekinesis, and probably unarmored defense and ability to change damage types to psychic and then later to force or psychic.

Spells obtainable via talents and such as well as base class features would include the obvious stuff like message and mage hand, but also absorb elements, catapult, scatter, Shadowblade, various illusions and divinations, etc.

A subclass all about psychic constructs would get all the force construct spells, as well as weapon attack spells and the ability to make construct weapons and be proficient with them.

i do think that even using the singular spellcasting system of 5e they could've done alot within it to make the different spellcasters actually feel different, like look at warlock, pact magic doesn't work fundamentally different to wizard casting, oh sure the slots it gets and it's recovery schedule is different but it's still not a whole different system,

wizard - standard known caster, spell slots, builds a large spell library through spellbook mechanic
sorcerer - mana/spell points, metamagic, more emphasis on subclass determining spell list
warlock - pact magic, eldritch invocations
cleric - narrow spell list supplemented by expanded spell lists and/or domain spheres
druid - standard prepared caster, (+wildshape)
bard - hypothetical 'skill check casting' where instead of slots they need to make spell appropriate skill checks to cast spells (disguise self might require a deception check for instance, higher level spells or upcasting require harder DCs)

Been thinking about this a lot... reading the other threads, reviewing psionics from AD&D, etc.

I think describing the role and powers a psion could have would be most helpful, but I also think this is where it would break down, too. There's just too much that could be possible and fall under the umbrella of psionics in my opinion. I mean think about all the "mind magic" stuff we see in everything from Star Wars to superheroes to Firestater to whatever! IT'S A LOT!

This is where I am getting hung up I guess. You either have dozens of powers with several levels of escalation in each or hundreds of powers (in all likelihood). I would love to see an exhaustive list of all the powers we (as a community) associate with potentially psionic.

I started a thread to do this, in case people want to chime in.

My take: Telekinesis and telepathy are the core gotta-haves when it comes to psionics. Secondarily you have body manipulation and extrasensory powers. After that you get into more directly mystic things like translocation and temporal distortion including pulling in astral entiries and larger-scope divination. After that it starts overlapping with magic pretty hard.

Incenjucar said:

My take: Telekinesis and telepathy are the core gotta-haves when it comes to psionics. Secondarily you have body manipulation and extrasensory powers. After that you get into more directly mystic things like translocation and temporal distortion including pulling in astral entiries and larger-scope divination. After that it starts overlapping with magic pretty hard.

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Mostly I agree, but I think for many people it would already have overlapped magic before the end game.

And I think that is also part of the issue with the psion. Psionic-like powers were given to other spellcasters from the beginning because there was no psion really (except the AD&D appendix I suppose). So things like seeing the future, speaking with non-humanoid creatures, etc. as well as telekinesis have long been spells.

Incenjucar said:

My take: Telekinesis and telepathy are the core gotta-haves when it comes to psionics. Secondarily you have body manipulation and extrasensory powers. After that you get into more directly mystic things like translocation and temporal distortion including pulling in astral entiries and larger-scope divination. After that it starts overlapping with magic pretty hard.

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I mean there is a 100% overlap with magic from the get go. Is there anything a psion can do that a magic-user cannot?

dave2008 said:

I mean there is a 100% overlap with magic from the get go. Is there anything a psion can do that a magic-user cannot?

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Should there be?

Psionics extends the bleeding edge of the possible, magic does the impossible. A sufficiently high spell should be able to replicate a psionic ability, but a psion can do it all day and with more refined precision.

dave2008 said:

I mean there is a 100% overlap with magic from the get go. Is there anything a psion can do that a magic-user cannot?

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The distinction itself is completely arbitrary. There's no difference between "magic" and "psychic powers" that matters.