It depends on how big the difference is. A fighter with a 20 strength and con is going so shine compared to a fighter with 14s. Even then, there are some players that are just more effective while playing their characters than others.
D&D (2024) Using general Feats when your ability is already 20
- Thread starter ECMO3
- Start date
It depends on how big the difference is. A fighter with a 20 strength and con is going so shine compared to a fighter with 14s. Even then, there are some players that are just more effective while playing their characters than others.
jgsugden
Legend
We're not just talking more effective though - we're talking 300% more effective.
In a great game with a great DM a player with low attributes can make major contribution in the combat and story. However, when a PC has overwhelmingly high stats, either they garner all the spotlight in combat due to their capability relative to others, or the DM has to shape the game around their abilities to prevent them from being the spotlight. We would love for that to not be true ... and we'd like to think we can have our cake and eat it too .... but situations where one PC is overwhelmingly more powerful in combat than other PCs has a huge impact. It is lesser for spellcasters that weapon users ... but it is still there.
This does not break the game. However, it does strain it and need to be accounted for if the game if going to split the spotlight well.
Did you really meant 30% better?
It's my preference to use point buy because I don't see the point of 1 time luck of the dice dictating overall effectiveness. If I wanted the option of a 20 as a starting stat, I'd tweak the point buy (or create arrays) that allow for it. Then again I always plan for games to go up to level 20 so people an potentially play the same character for a long, long time. For a one shot or a campaign that was only going to be 2-3 sessions I wouldn't care that much.
But that's off topic.
I guess we just have different play experiences. I've been playing D&D since 1981 and I am currently in 4 regular weekly 5E/2024 games with 3 different groups in addition to other pick up games I play or DM occasionally and I have not experienced that. TBH I have never seen ability scores play a significant role in who is the "star" or character that shines the most.
Since you seem to have experienced this frequently, I assume you regularly play in games where PCs roll abilities?
While strong abilities do inherently provide certain players with mathematical advantages, those advantages don't overcome or really affect how players exercise or leverage knowledge, creativity, ingenuity or most importantly personality. Those things are more important than ability scores (far more important IME) and the players who leverage them will be the "stars" regardless of their ability scores. I also notice you did not mention personality in terms of being an introvert or an extrovert and that is a BIG driver at the table as well. I don't care what your stats are, if you are the guy or girl at the table who does not want to speak up and wants to mostly sit back and watch, you are not going to be the "star" and if you are the one who wants to talk and take a leading role in every encounter you will be.
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We are just going to have to disagree and the player chose to take a 20 instead of a 19 (or even lower) at 1st level. So the player chose not to be able to take a Charisma boost at level 4 when he chose to put his 18 in Charisma and put the +2 there.
Also the table decided to roll ability scores, not me. Although I think rolling for scores is significantly more fun as a player I don't really care either way as a DM and will let the players drive the method we use (as long as they all use the same). Most players tend to favor rolling IME. Most players even tend to favor rolling hp even though it is mathematically statistically weaker than taking the value you are allowed to take.
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As a point of fact that is NOT happening in the game I started this thread about. The PC who started with a 20 who has "overwhelmingly" high Charisma and they are not garnering all the spotlight. Further the 2nd highest rolling character isn't garnering the spotlight either (a Bard who started with a 19 Charisma).
The character who is the garnering the most spotlight is a Monk-Druid who actually has below average rolls in addition to multiclassing early and missing out on their first ASI.
What you post above may be your experience in some games, but it is not universally true and IME not even generally true.
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Flights of Fancy
Candy is King
...what? What!? WHAT!?! He is what, man, what?! Don't keep me in suspense!
Then let the players drive how to rule this. shrug
...what? What!? WHAT!?! He is what, man, what?! Don't keep me in suspense!
Then let the players drive how to rule this. shrug
Sorry I edited it ... he is the one who chose to make it that way.
The issue with "players choice" is I like to set the deviations from RAW in session 0 and don't deviate in that game unless it is really, really necessary. What would be unfair IMO is if I let this player deviate from RAW when another PC might have chosen his build and ability bonuses and feats based on the idea that they couldn't go higher than 20.
Flights of Fancy
Candy is King
No worries lol.
My point is now that this came up, you asked us here what RAI or RAW is on it. But if the players decided to roll, and (I'm guessing) have decided on other things, now the player knows they want CHA-based feats, so let the group decide instead of adhereing to RAW or RAI or asking us.
Personally, if you know he wants another CHA-based half-feat, I'd give him both half-feats since he can't gain ASIs from either one.
But yeah, we can disagree, I've got no issue with that. There are lots of things you could do instead of just letting half the feat go to waste...
MuhVerisimilitude
Hero
Assuming the fighter hits for 6.5 on average and the barbarian hits for 14, the fighter is on average at about 50% of the damage dealt by the barbarian, not counting accuracy.
Taking accuracy into account we get roughly 0.55 * 6.5 = apprx 3.25 as average damage for the fighter and 0.88 * 14 = apprx. 13 (not going to bring out a calc for this). Looks like this barb is doing roughly 4 times as much damage per round.
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