What Does a "Successful" RPG Look Like?

Morrus said:

Exactly. I think we can all agree that games like Pathfinder and Call of Cthulhu are successful RPGs.

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Yeah. I wonder if it helps to look at RPGs that are on the lower line of success. We know Shadowdark is successful.

Time also changes success. Is the original 13th Age successful now? I'd argue it was successful in the years after it came out. I played it at conventions. They had a lot of great first and third party support. But I don't know how many people are playing it now. Of course, that could change when rev 2 comes out.

Shadow of the Demon Lord is in a similar boat. It still has lots of first party support but are people really playing it with Weird Wizard out now?

I heard Fred Hicks talk about how interest FATE had died off, not just as a game but as a whole system, given the rise of Powered by the Apocalypse.

So yeah, time has a factor too. Games that remain successful for a long time are pretty interesting to see.

Another potential metric of success: did it influence other games that followed it and therefore have a legacy, even if itself is no longer played/read/purchased/whatever.

Mentions on EN World and easy to find Youtube videos

When a product has wide recognition via social media that generally means theres a good fanbase, broader interest and a chance it might be interesting.

Having had experience with publishing (not in TTRPGs), perhaps a kinder set of points to consider:

• Does it exist?
• Is a copy available in the local library?
• Are people running a business that sell this game or games similar to it?
  (e.g. A game store that offers primarily OSR/indie products -- these do exist!)
• When seeking recommendations or suggestions for X, do people mention it via word-of-mouth?

Morrus said:

That is certainly true, but it doesn't answer the question. Is there only allowed to be one successful thing in any category in the world? The top one? One successful car, one successful cereal brand, one successful country, one successful movie?

Simply naming the top selling candidate isn't addressing the question in any meaningful way.

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The OP didn't provide a definition for success, so using my own definition, D&D is the only truly successful ttrpg. You
don't have to agree, but I answered an incomplete question to the best of my ability

SlyFlourish said:

D&D's sales data isn't on DriveThruRPG (because they don't sell PDFs....)

NPD data is all over the place these days. It's what led to that whole idea that WOTC only sold four thousand copies of the 2024 PHB.

Morrus responded better than I about the idea of only measuring success against D&D but again, because that topic keeps coming up, that's why I wanted to discuss the topic.

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Wotc indeed does sell D&D pdfs on DrivethruRPG

NPD Bookscan is considered one of the better sales data sites on the web


I mean -- if your goal is to get only the answers you want, I'd suggest being more specific with your questions. If I am asked my opinion on a topic, and I give my opinion on that topic

Theory of Games said:

The OP didn't provide a definition for success, so using my own definition, D&D is the only truly successful ttrpg. You
don't have to agree, but I answered an incomplete question to the best of my ability

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OK. Good chat.

Theory of Games said:

The OP didn't provide a definition for success, so using my own definition, D&D is the only truly successful ttrpg. You
don't have to agree, but I answered an incomplete question to the best of my ability


Wotc indeed does sell D&D pdfs on DrivethruRPG

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/publisher/44/wizards-of-the-coast?genre=100-fantasy&src=browse44

NPD Bookscan is considered one of the better sales data sites on the web

BookScan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I mean -- if your goal is to get only the answers you want, I'd suggest being more specific with your questions. If I am asked my opinion on a topic, and I give my opinion on that topic

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Not at all! My goal was to bring up the conversation because I knew there were people out there who benchmark every RPG against D&D -- which is an impossible benchmark to make. So now we get to recognize the fallacy of that idea and find out what actually makes a successful RPG.

Alphastream did a fantastic deep dive into D&D using Bookscan and has since said that since changing distributers, bookscan data is a poor indicator of WOTC's sales.

If you disagree, please show me complete D&D 2024 sales data.

Piperken said:

Having had experience with publishing (not in TTRPGs), perhaps a kinder set of points to consider:

• Does it exist?
• Is a copy available in the local library?
• Are people running a business that sell this game or games similar to it?
  (e.g. A game store that offers primarily OSR/indie products -- these do exist!)
• When seeking recommendations or suggestions for X, do people mention it via word-of-mouth?

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#2 would disqualify Pathfinder and Call of Cthulhu from being successful in my neck of the woods, and you'd think people are still only playing 3E D&D.

Stormonu said:

#2 would disqualify Pathfinder and Call of Cthulhu from being successful in my neck of the woods, and you'd think people are still only playing 3E D&D.

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It would disqualify D&D here, too.

SlyFlourish said:

So what, to you, does a successful RPG look like? How do you judge whether an RPG has caught on or not? What measures, metrics, or vibes (as the kids say these days) do you use to determine if an RPG was successful?

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I think there are different kinds of "successful" here.

A) Does the RPG, as an RPG, work well rules-wise, and achieve its own goals design, artistry and tone-wise?

I think, historically, there have been a lot of RPGs that don't. Including ones that did fairly financially successful, at least for a while. Particularly before about 2010 it was pretty common to see RPGs which weren't very thoughtfully or consciously designed, and which had goals at odds with the approaches they were taking. I personally think those were not really "successful".

B) Does the RPG have enduring popularity?

This is obviously one that you need a few years to tell, but are people still wanting to play the RPG, maybe wanting new material, maybe new editions, years or decades later? Is there an actual community who play that RPG? I think this is a really challenge for a lot of RPGs, especially ones which kind of get replaced by other RPGs.

C) Does the RPG make money and keep making money?

This doesn't apply to all RPGs, some are free or released without much serious intent to make money, for example, but for those which are definitely commercial, any definition of success is going to have to include that.