No Initiative Order: How Do You Do It?

tomBitonti · Friday at 5:29 PM

We used to do simultaneous resolution (lo, decades ago) with initiative used to declare actions. The GM was responsible for figuring out what happened, and for giving players an opportunity to adjust their actions according to things happening.

I really miss this style of play. The whole initiative system from 3E, with its “fixes” of 5’ steps and spring attack and opportunity attacks feels off. I do understand how initiative helps keep the game flowing. I also think that it puts a “board gamey” feel on the game, and breaks immersion.

TomB

Vael · Friday at 5:33 PM

Umbran said:
I haven't had any problems in using popcorn initiative. I don't usually use it in D&D, in games in which initiative results determine the number of actions you get in a round, or games in which PCs have spent a lot of build resources on being good at traditional initiative. There are ways to convert games, but I haven't been in a situation where that'd be a significant improvement.

I've been a big fan of Popcorn initiative. I like how it allows some strategy and is more collaborative, I find set initiative causes players to check out when their turn is done. I now run 5e this way, and if ... when I play it, Daggerheart's lack of initiative is too loose for my players, will probably implement Popcorn there too.

John R Davis · Friday at 6:03 PM

I like initiative in a lot of the new games

Player goes, GM goes, Player goes etc
Tokens can be used to size the initiative

zakael19 · Friday at 7:18 PM

Umbran said:
I cannot, for the life of me, think of a TTRPG that does "lock you into combat".

Ok, “has a distinct and separate mode inclusive of initiative where you’re expected to resolve the conflict/encounter fully within the combat rules.” Or however you want to parse out that stuff like 5e and PF2 has “battle mode now guys” and “ok that’s done” as discreet markers.

Imaro · Friday at 8:25 PM

Reynard said:
You may find Shadowdark interesting then. One of its quirks is that it has "always on initiative" in and out of combat.

definiteFreakyFishGuy said:
I actually saw an actual play with Kelsey Dionne as GM, where she told her players that the order is optional outside of combat.

But yeah, definitely interested in playing this one day.

I ran a Shadowdark one shot with my group and I was surprised at how much I liked always on initiative outside of combat. It helped me to better keep my less assertive players involved in what was happening at the moment since it eliminated the ability to just kind of fade into the background while others continuously act, as well as forcing me to avoid the bias of being too involved with more assertive players and instead directly addressing every player and what they want to do before circling back to those who had already spent time in the spotlight.

Imaro · Friday at 8:28 PM

zakael19 said:
Ok, “has a distinct and separate mode inclusive of initiative where you’re expected to resolve the conflict/encounter fully within the combat rules.” Or however you want to parse out that stuff like 5e and PF2 has “battle mode now guys” and “ok that’s done” as discreet markers.

I still feel like this is a choice. Nothing about rolling initiative forces you to be locked into combat. I think combat is fun for most players in D&D and Pathfinder and so once it's been initiated they rarely choose to end or leave it prematurely.

Zaukrie · Friday at 8:44 PM

Imaro said:
I still feel like this is a choice. Nothing about rolling initiative forces you to be locked into combat. I think combat is fun for most players in D&D and Pathfinder and so once it's been initiated they rarely choose to end or leave it prematurely.

I'm not sure why you'd play those two games of you don't like combat. Others are free to disagree, just my thought.

jdrakeh · Friday at 8:55 PM

I use "Debrau Initiative" (named after my old Star Wars WEG GM). Basically, in combat, players take turns starting with the person seated to the left or right of the GM and rotating clockwise or counterclockwise (the GM may shake this up at their discretion). Characters get one action each by default. NPCs/Monsters always act last. Technically, this is an initiative system, but only just.

dragoner · Friday at 9:11 PM

Classic Traveller always had no initiative since '77, it works fine, though I think doing initiative works fine too. Part of the 'no initiative' thing is de-programming people who are used to it from other games.

No Initiative Order: How Do You Do It?

tomBitonti

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Vael

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John R Davis

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zakael19

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Imaro

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Imaro

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Zaukrie

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jdrakeh

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