Should PCs Be Exceptional?

payn said:

I don’t know all of these references but I see Conan as mundanely exceptional. His backstory covers him becoming so, but he bleeds and makes dumb decisions like any one else. He’s awesome because he perseveres because of luck, wits, and grit even in the face of the fantastical.

It’s the exceptional as in the PC can bend steel or fly or Bullets bounce off them which would annihilate a normal person that I do not prefer.

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I feel like there is an excluded middle here. Exceptional does not necessarily mean Superman level. The Shadow is exceptional. So is Aragorn. Neither is a Superman.

Reynard said:

I feel like there is an excluded middle here. Exceptional does not necessarily mean Superman level. The Shadow is exceptional. So is Aragorn. Neither is a Superman.

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Yes, mundanely exceptional due to their journeys in life. Not because they are inherently exceptional.

It's entirely genre & tone dependent and it's bizarre to me to suggest otherwise. So here's my answer based on that. 'Yes' indicates the PCs would be exceptional in any game I'd like to run (or want to play in) of that genre. 'No' indicates they would not be.

High Fantasy - Yes

Low Fantasy - No

Dark Fantasy - Yes

Sword & Sorcery - No

Mythic Fantasy - Yes

Medieval Europe - No

Samurai / Wuxia - No

Ancient Worlds - Yes

Colonial / Age of Sail - No

Urban Fantasy - Yes

Superhero - Yes

Espionage / Spy Thriller - No

Crime / Noir - No

Post-Apocalyptic - No

Space Opera - Yes

Cyberpunk - No

Hard Sci-Fi - No

Mecha / Giant Robots - Yes

Post-Cyberpunk / Solarpunk - No

Alien Invasion / Xeno Threat - No

Cosmic Horror / Lovecraftian - No

Gothic Horror - No

Slasher / Survival Horror - No

Paranormal Investigation - Yes

Mind-Bending / Surrealist - Yes

Moral Dilemmas - No

Science Fantasy - Yes

Dieselpunk - No

Atompunk - Yes

Weird West -Yes

Time Travel - No

Court Intrigue - Yes

Rebellion / Revolution - Yes

Merchant / Trade / Colonization - No

Slice of Life - No

Coming of Age - No

Romantic / Emotional - No

Comedy / Satire - No

Dreamlike / Symbolic - No

Fourth Wall / Meta-Narrative - No

payn said:

Yes, mundanely exceptional due to their journeys in life. Not because they are inherently exceptional.

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That certainly isn't true for Aragorn, and questionable for the Shadow at the start of his "PCness."

Elvish Lore said:

It's entirely genre & tone dependent and it's bizarre to me to suggest otherwise.

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It is just a question of general preference. I can see how you might quibble, but "bizarre"?

Not only should PCs not be exceptional, they shouldn't even be "average" skill level based on the campaign. They should start as absolute bottom-of-the-barrel scrubs. At best, when they reach the vaunted heights of 3rd level, should they occasionally be lumped in with the "competent" folks.

And, of course, 3rd is as high as leveling goes in the World's Greatest Roleplaying Game, so that's it. Time to retire Mike the Fighter and roll out his replacement... Spike the Gladiator!

Tom Moldvay knew what he was doing and I trust him. You don't need anything higher!

In any system I like the PC to be slightly above average to begin the game. In D&D in particular, with its Bildungsroman and Heroes' Journey dynamics ("zero to hero"), I like the PC to start out as a comparative youth who by virtue of expectational native talent and the blessings of the gods (and other great spirits) has uncommon potential for growth and development - that is to say all the PC's are prodigies in some fashion. They in fact might be only about average in ability or only a little above average, but this is only because of their relative inexperience. Everyone around them will guess that if they have not already, they soon will outstrip them.

The average NPC is 2nd or 3rd level, but typically NPC classed with a stat array close to 12,11,11,10,10,9, no advantages, and no destiny points. The average 1st level PC is therefore in some respects already extraordinary and needs only a chance at personal growth to prove themselves. This simultaneously explains several things necessary or at least convenient to most coherent adventure stories. Why does anyone see the PCs as special? Why does responsibility fall to the PCs? How does anyone manage when the PCs aren't around? The NPCs are competent but lack the potential, fortitude and freedom of youth. Many of the NPCs that vastly exceed the PCs in competency are hindered by aging bodies that make adventuring less practical, and responsibilities that tie them to duties that they can't abandon.

By the time PCs are 6th level or higher in my game they are persons of considerable stature.

In reality, there are rare individuals with higher inherent gifts than even a D&D NPC. I've known people with like a 14+ in every one of the six attributes, and there are a few rare persons with arguably natural 22 or 24 strength. Some people out there are just insanely fortunate. Life is not fair. But I try not to make a lot of characters like that in a game universe because I don't like having characters that are just gifted vastly beyond what the PCs are. I use a point by system with 32 pts, and in general only the BBEG and other individuals of similar stature are built with that much points. The PCs are special in someways right from the start.

Other systems use similar logic but have less necessity of "they are just youths" to explain the PC's stature (usually because they are skill based rather than level based) and often less fast growth curves. But in general, that the PCs could become some of the most talented and capable individuals in the setting is something I want from any game I run.

Reynard said:

It is just a question of general preference. I can see how you might quibble, but "bizarre"?

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It's just a choice of words. Tone and vibe I want with each genre can be totally different. In terms of what I want for the characters, space opera will not map at all to gritty crime drama.

It's all about genre and I don't get trying to answer the question without addressing that as a foundation.

Staffan said:

Heck, even for the most commonly mentioned Zero-to-hero example (Star Wars), that only applies to one of the three main characters. Sure, Luke's a complete n00b, but Han Solo is a highly experienced pilot with a fairly long smuggling career, and Leia might be young but she's an experienced rebel operative as well as an imperial senator, presumably with access to the best trainers money can buy.

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Even Luke isn't a complete N00b. Biggs, who has been to the Imperial Academy and thus been formally trained, and who is competent enough to throw into Red Squadron, testifies "Luke is the best pilot in the outer rim." While there might be some bias talking, there is good reason to believe that Luke is himself starting with a dice pool already well above what is available to a typical starting Star Wars RPG character. Best pilot in the outer rim implies Luke has something like 9d6 or 10d6 in Starfighter Operation to begin the game and is only an inexperienced N00b in the sense that he's very much a specialist with perhaps no more than 4d6 in any non-piloting pool.

Reynard said:

That certainly isn't true for Aragorn, and questionable for the Shadow at the start of his "PCness."

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Well, there is certainly another level to the discussion. Does the player want to take the journey to being exceptional, or do they just want to start after it’s been achieved? I’m of the former mind but do expect to arrive at some point.