Should PCs Be Exceptional?

[Scribe]

Obviously the first. The second is a pernicious myth that contributes to “hustle culture” and other societal ills.

I think we go off the rails pretty quickly if we pursue this, but I dont think so.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

My preference these days, is that unless I'm specifically running a superhero game, I don't really want to run a game where the PCs rapidly reach, or start out with, superheroic status. They should be part of the world, subject to its dangers and challenges, for much of the campaign. But by the end, there still should be a sense of achievement.

If PC power is so above the scale of anyone else, then I think the setting starts to lose some of its verisimilitude. It can then run the risk of becoming a playground, not a world.

 

[Micah Sweet]

My preference these days, is that unless I'm specifically running a superhero game, I don't really want to run a game where the PCs rapidly reach, or start out with, superheroic status. They should be part of the world, subject to its dangers and challenges, for much of the campaign. But by the end, there still should be a sense of achievement.

If PC power is so above the scale of anyone else, then I think the setting starts to lose some of its verisimilitude. It can then run the risk of becoming a playground, not a world.

Agreed. Superheroes are the only exception to my general preference in this area.

 

[Lord Shark]

Of course, my problem is that D&D when I started playing it was more sword & sorcery and less high fantasy, and I still prefer to play my D&D-like games that way, so the whole "D&D is high fantasy" thing has never sit right with me.

I've never understood this distinction. Sword and sorcery characters are, by and large, exceptional people. Conan, Elric, Imaro, Kane, Jirel, Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser, Morgaine -- none of them are just ordinary sellswords. It's exactly because I like sword and sorcery that I like my fantasy protagonists to be big damn heroes.

Sword and sorcery is rooted in the pulp tradition, and pulp heroes tend to be exceptional characters, just as Doc Savage is not an average scientist or the Shadow is not an average detective.

In fact, epic fantasy is where I'd be more likely to expect to find the average farmhand or stableboy who ends up saving the kingdom (e.g. LOTR, the Belgariad, Memory Sorrow and Thorn, etc.).

 

[Reynard]

I've never understood this distinction. Sword and sorcery characters are, by and large, exceptional people. Conan, Elric, Imaro, Kane, Jirel, Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser, Morgaine -- none of them are just ordinary sellswords. It's exactly because I like sword and sorcery that I like my fantasy protagonists to be big damn heroes.

Sword and sorcery is rooted in the pulp tradition, and pulp heroes tend to be exceptional characters, just as Doc Savage is not an average scientist or the Shadow is not an average detective.

In fact, epic fantasy is where I'd be more likely to expect to find the average farmhand or stableboy who ends up saving the kingdom (e.g. LOTR, the Belgariad, Memory Sorrow and Thorn, etc.).

All this.

I think people use "sword and sorcery" where they mean "low fantasy" or perhaps "grim and gritty." As you say, pulp fantasy heroes were everything from immortals to singularly heroic to supermen.

And this is essentially what I mean in the OP and the poll question, and in case I never mentioned it: yes, I prefer in most games I run for the PCs to be a tier (at least) above the "regular" people that inhabit the world.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I've never understood this distinction. Sword and sorcery characters are, by and large, exceptional people. Conan, Elric, Imaro, Kane, Jirel, Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser, Morgaine -- none of them are just ordinary sellswords. It's exactly because I like sword and sorcery that I like my fantasy protagonists to be big damn heroes.

Sword and sorcery is rooted in the pulp tradition, and pulp heroes tend to be exceptional characters, just as Doc Savage is not an average scientist or the Shadow is not an average detective.

In fact, epic fantasy is where I'd be more likely to expect to find the average farmhand or stableboy who ends up saving the kingdom (e.g. LOTR, the Belgariad, Memory Sorrow and Thorn, etc.).

He ends up saving the kingdom because she has a special destiny. Not generally the case in S&S. They make their own legend (as told after the fact, of course). As I said before, I expect most PCs will be above average in some respect, just not so much that they exist beyond the statistical range for the type of being they are and the circumstances of their life.

 

[Corinnguard]

He ends up saving the kingdom because she has a special destiny.

Not special, just one of several that a player can choose from if they were playing in Level Up.

 

[payn]

I've never understood this distinction. Sword and sorcery characters are, by and large, exceptional people. Conan, Elric, Imaro, Kane, Jirel, Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser, Morgaine -- none of them are just ordinary sellswords. It's exactly because I like sword and sorcery that I like my fantasy protagonists to be big damn heroes.

Sword and sorcery is rooted in the pulp tradition, and pulp heroes tend to be exceptional characters, just as Doc Savage is not an average scientist or the Shadow is not an average detective.

In fact, epic fantasy is where I'd be more likely to expect to find the average farmhand or stableboy who ends up saving the kingdom (e.g. LOTR, the Belgariad, Memory Sorrow and Thorn, etc.).

I don’t know all of these references but I see Conan as mundanely exceptional. His backstory covers him becoming so, but he bleeds and makes dumb decisions like any one else. He’s awesome because he perseveres because of luck, wits, and grit even in the face of the fantastical.

It’s the exceptional as in the PC can bend steel or fly or Bullets bounce off them which would annihilate a normal person that I do not prefer.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

Agreed. Superheroes are the only exception to my general preference in this area.

It's like, if you want to play a superhero, play a superhero game. I've no interest in running a game for murderhobos with the power to level whole villages.

I've never understood this distinction. Sword and sorcery characters are, by and large, exceptional people. Conan, Elric, Imaro, Kane, Jirel, Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser, Morgaine -- none of them are just ordinary sellswords. It's exactly because I like sword and sorcery that I like my fantasy protagonists to be big damn heroes.

Sword and sorcery is rooted in the pulp tradition, and pulp heroes tend to be exceptional characters, just as Doc Savage is not an average scientist or the Shadow is not an average detective.

In fact, epic fantasy is where I'd be more likely to expect to find the average farmhand or stableboy who ends up saving the kingdom (e.g. LOTR, the Belgariad, Memory Sorrow and Thorn, etc.).

Here's the thing about Conan, Elric, Imaro, Kane, Jirel, Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser, and Morgaine - they all fail in the course of their adventures. Repeatedly. Conan is crucified, loses his kingdom, Imaro fails to gain the acceptance of the tribe that raised him, Jirel realizes only too late what her quest for vengeance has cost her. Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser get cocky and fall victim to hubris on multiple occasions (ah, do I love "The Two Best Thieves in Lankhmar").

They are powerful, but not so powerful that the dangers of the world become inconsequential. I'll warrant that Kane comes close to that, which is why the best Kane stories are the ones that aren't "and Kane was stronger and smarter than everyone else and won, the end."

 

[Scribe]

They are powerful, but not so powerful that the dangers of the world become inconsequential.

Which is a core component of Sword and Sorcery. Its not about world shaking events, thats not the power level of the characters.