D&D 5E (2024) How do you handle surprised but won initiative?

Lanefan · 2026-03-16T07:35:09+0000

Sorcerers Apprentice said:
But casting a fireball involves speaking out a magical incantation and waving around a piece of batshit, it's not instant like pulling the trigger on a rifle.

In 5e those things take the same amount of time: one action.

SableWyvern · 2026-03-16T07:45:36+0000

Charlaquin said:
I could be wrong, but I think Viva La Dirt League did do a sketch about initiating combat but rolling lower for initiative than the target of your attack. I know I have definitely seen a comedy sketch about that at least, might have been a different group though.

You may be thinking of "Not My Turn," where the archer is waiting for the half orc (with lower initiative) to move out the way in order to take a shot.

They also did "Turn Based" about initiative generally.

I don't recall and can't find any skits about surprise specifically. There could be something in one of their actual plays; I don't watch any of those.

Horwath · 2026-03-16T08:13:41+0000

Lanefan said:
In 5e those things take the same amount of time: one action.

but narrative is different,
it would be similar if sniper would have to chamber a round before shooting and sniper is in hearing distance.

you knpw what they say about bullets; you hear the bullet that misses you.

saviirkad · 2026-03-16T14:20:02+0000

Lanefan said:
In 5e those things take the same amount of time: one action.

Which means it occurs within a six second span, with the amount of time it takes up within it undefined and left up to the narrative, whether voiced or imagined. Which just means it'll probably vary by table, but we have an upper bound.

So if you disregard the narrative entirely and the action is effectively instantaneous, or you narrate it to be a very rapid and small part of those six seconds, then it's not gonna allow for much of a reaction.

For myself, the narrative I employ is based on the fact that the turns within a six second round are simultaneous. Actions, movements, reactions and bonus actions, etc., fill the six seconds in a fluid manner that adjusts itself as the dice are rolled and turns are taken. The full visual doesn't finalize itself until each turn is confirmed.

This preference does lend itself well to either version of 5e's "surprise" mechanic.

Voadam · 2026-03-16T16:06:02+0000

How many things affect initiative? Dex gives a modifier, surprise gives advantage, the alert origin feat gives another bonus and allows swapping. Anything else?

BigMac75 · 2026-03-16T16:11:03+0000

Voadam said:
How many things affect initiative? Dex gives a modifier, surprise gives advantage, the alert origin feat gives another bonus and allows swapping. Anything else?

Weapon of Warning gives whole party (in 30') advantage. It's OP...

BigMac75 · 2026-03-16T16:26:02+0000

A flying invisible Sprite positions themselves behind a target and fires an arrow at them from their tiny bow at reasonably close range (close enough that they will be unlikely to miss and far enough away that their little flapping wings will not be heard).

As far as I know they do not need to do a stealth check to get advantage on the forthcoming initiative check (they are invisible). Would it be reasonable to let them make a stealth check (or for their opponent to make a passive perception check) and as a result possibly also give the target disadvantage on initiative?

saviirkad · 2026-03-16T21:56:29+0000

BigMac75 said:
A flying invisible Sprite positions themselves behind a target and fires an arrow at them from their tiny bow at reasonably close range (close enough that they will be unlikely to miss and far enough away that their little flapping wings will not be heard).

As far as I know they do not need to do a stealth check to get advantage on the forthcoming initiative check (they are invisible). Would it be reasonable to let them make a stealth check (or for their opponent to make a passive perception check) and as a result possibly also give the target disadvantage on initiative?

Not sure if RAW is explicit on this or not, but at least how I'd run it is that the Invisible condition grants advantage on Initiative, but to also get the surprise would require either a stealth or perception check, depending on who the PC is.

Xetheral · 2026-03-17T08:05:21+0000

We roll dice to resolve uncertainty. If a particular combat won't start until an ambusher initiates it, there is no uncertainty about who goes first, so I recommend just putting the ambusher at the top of the initiative order. (Everyone else goes afterwards, in order of their initiative checks, as normal.) This approach completely avoids nonsensical scenarios while guaranteeing that the ambusher only gets one turn before the defenders can respond (rather than the two they might get if you allow the ambusher to attack prior to the initiative roll.)