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It's different this time. Every edition change up to this point has been about improving the game and taking it forward. 5E is the first edition change designed to take the game backwards towards how it used to be. I think people would be more open to "new and improved" than "back to the past".

There is a blurry line between describing a mechanic and describing your dislike. Describing a mechanic can be an interesting discussion, describing your dislike generally is not. Describing your dislike as if you are describing a mechanic is an edition war.

No, I've said that 5E can't succeed without 4E fans. 5E needs to win over everybody. If they fail 4E fans, they fail, and if they fail to win over the AD&D or 3.5E/PF fans they fail. 4E proved a portion of the D&D community isn't enough, and as a result the non-4E portion won't be enough same as...

Where have I said 5E shouldn't cater to fans of non-4E editions? Where have I said certain fanbases and playstyles of D&D should be excluded from 5E?

I don't see the correlation. My stance is that 5E should also cater to 4E tastes, which need not preclude appealing to other tastes. The crusade I was criticizing states that a group of D&D fans should be excluded from 5E. One is excluding a group of D&D players from 5E and the other is not...

In all this discussion, I think what gets missed is that the exact nature of the mechanics is not the important thing, your personal preferences are what is important. You liking/disliking a rule or system is far more significant than why. Why really isn't important outside of rationalizing your...

One could say the same about the "4E failed, so 5E must ignore 4E to succeed" crusade.

The change wasn't that it became a balance disaster, the change was that 3E multiclassing turned D&D into something that wasn't a class based system anymore, and instead a point buy system with choosing the class you gain a level in as the currency. That is a bigger fundamental change than...

It actually seems like the overall interest level has gone down significantly, here and everywhere else, though that might just be the lack of new information.

I think the point he's trying to make is that subscribers/collectors are more significant from a revenue perspective, than more casual purchasers, and that only 4E and Pathfinder players over the past five years have shown that behavior. I think he has a point, though the conclusions he derives...

I find it rather dismissive and condescending to assert that most 4E fans are followers who just play whatever, as opposed to liking and preferring 4E as a system. I find more than a whiff of wishful thinking in there as well. I also find two practical issues with the assertion. First is if 4E...

The issue I find with the current application of core + modules as 5E has presented itself so far is that it is being built on a fixed core, with modules only adding to the core and not changing the core. This limits the game to those who don't have fundamental issues with the core, as those...

4E's relative success or failure has nothing to do with it being a significant part of the D&D community, too significant for 5E to ignore.

The best representation of the Illusionist concept in D&D was 3.5's Beguiler.

5E needs everybody. Everybody includes 4E. If 5E fails 4E, it fails at getting everybody and fails overall. Don't get me wrong, getting 4E fans at the expense of everyone else is a recipe for failure. I'm just saying that getting everyone else at the expense of 4E fans is ALSO a recipe for...

WotC wants both, not either/or. 4E wasnt delivering the numbers WotC wanted, but at the same time they arent going to get the numbers they want without the 4E community. They need to get everybody, not just one camp or they other. Like it or not, 4E is a significant part of what D&D is right now.

Its my opinion that there are 4 main groups of D&D fans for 5E to appeal to, not just 4E, 3E/PF, and OSR. There is a 4th group, an important one, that tends to get lumped in within the 3E/PF and OSR crowds yet distinct from both. I call that group "2E", in quotation marks as I would expect few...

I believe the 4E community is large enough that 5E can't succeed without it, and it doesn't need to be a majority for that to be true. A 4E rejection would compound 5E not being adopted by others, as I don't expect much of the OSR to adopt 5E and due to the fervor of a lot of Pathfinder fans...

I predict that if 5E ends up giving 4E a wide berth, 50-75% of the 4E community will reject it and as a result it will fail WotC's sales goals and 6E will arrive in 3-5 years, if D&D isn't shelved completely. Either 5E needs to embrace 4E modularly and be able to support 4E-style play just as...

Thanks for the edition war.