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If this is their baseline, I think I've been turned off of templates entirely. I was fine with the idea in concept until I saw what they meant by templates... which was really just "How can we give you the most useless animal form possible?" It's not an exaggeration to say that most of the...

I like that they're reworking exhaustion. I actually think just about every other change I've seen so far has been either neutral or bad. My excitement level started out extremely high and with each release has been taken down a notch. With this release I'm actually starting to think I'll just...

So you think by annoying people who are enthusiastic about the class as it is they will capture broad appeal? I kind of doubt it, for a couple reasons. 1. Druids are still going to be more complicated than most classes. They're a full caster with a lot of complex features. They currently appeal...

I have been reading through this thread and get the funny feeling most of the people who think this is a great direction to go in are not the people who play Druids. People who play Druids, and it's my favorite class (perhaps tied with Wizard), do not like this change at all. The fantasy of...

Yes, I acknowledged that it targets a better save than similar spells. I don't think that and the lack of repeated saving throws is enough to justify it being three spell levels higher. Fourth level spells should be doing more than maybe taking one enemy off the field. Wisdom is a more common...

I don't wanna derail the thread too much, so only gonna post on this the one time, but... Banishment takes something (unless it's extraplanar) and knocks them out of the fight for a minute (if they fail, otherwise it eats a slot for nothing). At the cost of a 4th level spell slot (so polymorph...

Y'know, this has nothing to do with Silvery Barbs, but why is Banishment constantly the example used? I mean, it doesn't matter that much, the point is "single target effect does nasty thing," but it actually works against your case in a way. It might be worth throwing a Silvery Barb onto a Hold...

Higher resource cost for Heighten, lower action cast (none). A first level spell slot is worth about two sorcerer points, so you're paying a one sorcery point premium for the action economy discount. And yeah, they stack. That's a lot of resources to spend. You have to use a primary spell of...

But many of the features being compared here inflict disadvantage (or in some other way functionally make it less likely a creature will make save) at cheaper cost. Heightened Spell keeps coming up, but it gives disadvantage on a save at no action cost and at a similar cost. It does that, and...

Thank you. I disagree with your conclusion, but it is really nice to see someone on the other side of this argument actually addressing the counterpoints regarding the spell.

It's not. Strictly speaking you can cast it 0 times a day. Disintegrate is a 6th level spell, which you get at 11. Overall point still stands, specific spell aside.

Yeah, he does. Not that I think the opinion of a youtuber is worth any more than anyone else, but Treantmonk at least seems to understand that Shield is a spell that can dominate combat and can feel mandatory for players who are optimizing. It's a spell I go way out of my way to take...

True, Silvery Barbs has advantages over Heightened. That's because it's a different feature, and different features aren't going to function identically. You guys keep focusing only on the portions of Silvery Barbs that are better, not on the ones that are worse. I'll grant Heightened has all...

The problem with using any specific fight as an example is that either side can cherry pick niche situations to support their side. Silvery Barbs could be made to look really amazing if you're up against something that targets one creature with one huge attack or saving throw and Silvery Barbs...

The issue is that you said Silvery Barbs is on par with 4th level spells. Really hard to take that level of hyperbole seriously.

All entirely true. My point was simply that if you focus entirely on the spell at its peak value, a lot of spells can be made to sound far worse than they are. The only reason Silvery Barbs is getting all this negative feedback right now is that it's new. New things get more scrutiny than things...

Yeah, you read my mind. Typically I find that bosses run out of hp way before they run out of legendary resistances. High CR stuff doesn't have enough durability, in my experience.

Oh, agreed. Just to be clear, my position isn't "this spell is useless," my position is "this spell has limited applications and is not broken as people are asserting it is."

I'm speaking purely as a powergamer with extensive experience playing from 1 to 20 with epic boons. This is a balance discussion, roleplaying isn't relevant. I understand perfectly well what this spell is capable of. The problem here is that one of us has extensive knowledge of Fifth Edition...

You don't know what to say? Well, you could start with why you think otherwise. If I had to pick just one, as a combat-focused caster? It's shield. Every time. Silvery Barbs is nice, it's versatile, you can negate a crit, make something miss a teammate. That's good. It's still one attack...