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You know you're making a terrible argument here, don't you?

...Yes, and...?

So an elf wouldn't have a different ancestry?

Hmmm, yes, I will definitely spend a permanent character resource to acquire the equivalent of a non-magical shortsword, absolutely that is a reasonable way to spend a feat.

Where is "extreme speech enforcement" happening? Where do you see censorship? In what way do Shadow of the Demon Lord and PF2 fit into this argument, having already made a change? How in the world is a potential 6e deciding on "ancestry" any kind of censorship? None of that is happening here.

Who's actually arguing this? And why's there a big pile of straw on the floor?

I'm trying a kinder, gentler approach. I am burnt out on piss & vinegar from an unrelated discussion about the merits of homeopathy. :D (That is, none. It has no merits at all.)

"Some folks find the word 'race' problematic because despite its gaming history, it has real-world connotations that may be uncomfortable to some people. Maybe it's time to use a more respectful word without the baggage." But nah. You figure - "I'm a good person. I have friends from different...

So uh hey, it's 20 pages in. Has anyone mentioned that PF2 is just following in the footsteps of the outstanding Shadow of the Demon Lord, which has been using Ancestry since its release? edit: Wait, found one on Page 10!

Maybe not at all - why do you need orcs if you're playing with the enormous variety of humans? They're the extinct equivalent of Neanderthals. Or maybe Europe - inserted alongside humans, or living in the forbidden, scary wilderness. Enclaves in the Black Forest, the Caucasus, the Alps, etc.

I would have voted in the poll, but I didn't see an option for 'garbage parenting.' I think you should feel ashamed of yourself and try to make amends. I have no idea what your relationship is with your kid, but this is the equivalent of breaking up with someone by leaving all their stuff in a...

Oh man, from my experience, Dangerous Journeys/Mythus by a country mile. I ran it in high school, and frankly have no idea how. I saw Powers and Perils upthread - I wrote a review on that a few years ago, where I had a blast figuring it out. And yeah, it's complex, but it's also really neat...

Not quite true. 13A has the Commander class, which is another solid chassis to start from - and arguably a better one, since 13A doesn't have an emphasis on tactical combat.

Yeah, that's a major component - but what's key about 5e here (and most editions of D&D and D&D-adjacent games) is that each individual spell operates as a keyword which can get re-used by monsters, magic items, NPCs, etc. That's what I said upthread - the text of Fireball is as much a rule as...

No, despite the name "Storyteller" all of the WoD games in the 90's were both crunchy and combat-focused, with a kicker that the designers did a pretty bad job, and didn't even know how the math behind their own systems worked. They talked a good talk about being above it all, but they were at...

I can at least see and understand the argument for rules-medium. I personally disagree, but I can acknowledge the principle, and I've made a similar argument for 4e. (I mean, I ran a 1-30 4e campaign and maybe twice, ever, cracked an actual rulebook open during play.) I'd personally put...

Yep, absolutely. And if all of the options (monsters, spells, feats, etc) were all self-contained for 5e, I'd agree. However, the way 5e is set up, spells are as much a rule as anything about cover. Monsters regularly reference back to them, and players need to know their details routinely...

No, still heavy. If you have two categories, 5e is absolutely heavy. If you have three categories, it's still heavy. Just because there's heavier games in the world doesn't make it rules light. It just means it's not at the extreme ends of that category.

If you have - what, 800? 900? pages of rulebooks, it's not a rules-light game. Additionally, there's book referencing required mid-game, which IMO automatically excludes you from the 'rules light' club. It's much lighter than 3e, probably at a similar level to (or IME heavier than) 4e, and...

Oh the overt stuff was never okay - I was raised in a nearly-entirely-white, nearly-entirely-wealthy suburb with a good school district, etc. Those aren't the kind of biases I was talking about. But that's getting pretty far afield.