Jefe Bergenstein
Legend
"We'll all be paladins?!?" That's a HUGE surprise to me.
All I could think was "free balling paladins". Oath of the Ancients party animal it is!
"We'll all be paladins?!?" That's a HUGE surprise to me.
I see what your saying. I just wish I had any faith that it was an actual success. When someone’s parting words include something that insulting and wrong, it feels like I either completely bungled my own attempts at communicating, or else I’m being willfully mischaracterized in order to avoid the very soul searching that’s being claimed. Either way doesn’t feel like a success to me.
I am right on the same page. There's just so many random red flags, interwoven with what seem like they might be genuine sentiments.I can't tell if you are engaged in some sort of long-con performance art troll, in which case, congratulations, you have succeeded on getting a bunch of people on the internet to offer sincere and thoughtful statements to you. If that is not the case, I think your statements are very inconsistent and seem to veer from anti-feminist anti-diversity arguments to pro-diversity arguments and maybe you think you are proving a point but I'm not seeing it. Maybe you really are trying to find a middle path, in which case, I wish you the best in that.
Nah. Like I said, nobody is perfect.I guess for me this means that you're not racist. At some point a person's genuine intentions shines though saying something that was thoughtless or worded wrong - most of the time. That's assuming the conversation is held in good faith and not just to pick each other apart for disingenuous motivations. I don't really feel like living in the US makes you any more prone to racism than other places in the world (and actually it's a LOT less than some places).
It's actually pretty interesting; everything you just said is completely wrong.
Nah. Like I said, nobody is perfect.
And I was simply saying that - having lived in the USA through the 80's 90's and so on, I absorbed biases that were present in media, my family, friends, etc. This doesn't make me a bad person, but it does mean I grew up with attitudes that I can't change if I don't try to be conscious of them.
And I was not implying that the USA is uniquely bad when it comes to racism - we're not Japan, for example - only that these are the biases I inherited.
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Oh the overt stuff was never okay - I was raised in a nearly-entirely-white, nearly-entirely-wealthy suburb with a good school district, etc. Those aren't the kind of biases I was talking about. But that's getting pretty far afield.Ok, yeah I get that. I guess I feel like there is a stopping point where they do get all worked out, but maybe it depends where and how you were raised - I can only speak for how I was raised I guess. Any sort of bias, whether institutional or just against a particular individual, was never an ok thing when I grew up.
Well, near as I can tell, it's earned him a good degree of praise around most parts, raised awareness of misogynistic gatekeeping among people who didn't know it was an issue, and it has evidently hit a sore spot for the folks it was targeted at.
So unless I miss my guess, I'd say it's working as intended.
No, you were disparaging, in very strong terms, people who were standing up for what was right because they weren't doing it in the way you thought was the right way, for reasons that I have refuted multiple times now and that you have not even once responded to. Then, as the icing on the cake, you chose to cast aspersions on those people's motivations as well.
I am always doing soul searching, as should we all. I'm genuinely glad that you have too. However, you don't get to clearly and definitively insult that many people so harshly and then turn around and act innocent and pretend you were only talking about yourself.
Honestly, do you hear yourself? And you wonder why your "strategy" was dismissed out of hand?
Edit: Sorry, being flip again. But seriously, how dare you cast aspersions on the motivations of people talking about supporting Kate Welch and women like her, while here you are talking about how to "use her" as a "strategy"?
I don't know what "the icon bit" is. I saw your exchange with Obryn earlier where you accused him of wanting Kate Welch to martyr herself against and be subjected to all sorts of awful behavior and your statements seemed way off base and a total misreading of the situation. I read some of your "strategy" as well. I'm not going to comment on it.
I can't tell if you are engaged in some sort of long-con performance art troll, in which case, congratulations, you have succeeded on getting a bunch of people on the internet to offer sincere and thoughtful statements to you. If that is not the case, I think your statements are very inconsistent and seem to veer from anti-feminist anti-diversity arguments to pro-diversity arguments and maybe you think you are proving a point but I'm not seeing it. Maybe you really are trying to find a middle path, in which case, I wish you the best in that.
Yes, I am aware of how it sounds with how I worded it. Yes, I am aware of how people would dismiss it out of hand when they see it presented that way. That's why I presented it that way; the objective is to show that, yes, the post is about me and I'm holding myself at fault by bringing up one item as evidence.
I mean, think about it... When have I not been self-righteous in this? And I made it clear I have an agenda that I would be using Kate Welch as an icon for; it was mentioned in several posts and made explicit in a reply to billd91. Can you name anyone else in the thread who did something like that?
The "leapt to the defense" was sarcasm about some of my own comments in the discussion with Obryn.
Seriously, it was all about me. And every bit of the middle portion of that post was packed with a reference or mention of something I had done in the thread, and filled with venom. If I was going to argue further about the issue or cast aspirations, I wouldn't have stopped for a bit earlier or stopped with the trolling/trawling comment to your post. If I wanted to pick a massive fight with someone on this topic, you would be the prime candidate; the very first post you made that I read gave me a good read on where you stand.
Also, if you want me to deal with your posts, let's start with one misconception you have: Yes, the people going after Kate Welch are trolls. Yes, they are misogynists. Trolling and misogyny are not mutually exclusive.
There are many misogynists who use the internet, but do not seek out conflict with women or even actively avoid that conflict; there are some on this very forum, even if they don't realize it. There are even misogynists who think they are feminists. These are not the people going after Kate Welch. The people who go after Kate Welch are the misogynists who actively seek conflict. The ones who actively seek to engage. The ones who actively seek to dominate. They are misogynistic trolls.
Yes, multiple types of trolls exist. It can be hilarious if you get two types that hate each into to fight it out. Just like how there are branches of Anonymous that actively oppose other branches of Anonymous and the resulting hilarity of reading the stories about them hacking each other.