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I could be persuaded to amend my statements that skillful 5e play does involve playing the GM, but there is no way to discuss that objectively since what one GM views as reasonable another GM views as unreasonable. Two identical inputs, two divergent outputs. Unlike with to-hit vs. Armor Class...

Skillful play is not the the same as skillful D&D 5e play. My argument is that skillful D&D play relies specifically on character optimization and tactics because those are the primary rules in D&D 5e. Without any mechanical backing to other parts of the game--mostly defaulting to GM...

@Lyxen, again, you are misunderstanding what I'm saying. I have repeatedly and unequivocally stated that I am not interested in playing D&D without theatrical roleplaying elements and a reduced emphasis on tactical miniatures gameplay. Allow me to restate another time, clearly, and with bold...

The game's authors are wrong, period. I never said playing D&D to "have fun" is badwrongfun (you are repeatedly misinterpreting what I am stating), I said their claims that "winning" D&D is "having fun" is incorrect because there is a defined win/loss state in the rules. My previous statement...

@pemerton, Fate definitely has that issue. @Crimson Longinus, I'm not disagreeing, but some groups like D&D as a wargame. Ask Mike Mornard his opinions on this.

@TheSword, here's a very simple method of handling them. Bribery: The PCs can offer the character a bribe. The NPC might accept the bribe, reject the bribe, or hem and haw. If he hems and haws, the PC can make a Charisma (Persuasion) check. Success means he'll accept the bribe, failure means...

Inside me, there are two wolves. The first: give me a fleshed-out background prior to gameplay so I can shape my character fully. The second: nobody cares, give me a character and what happens in the game is all that matters. If the first wolf is to be fed, he needs to know lots of setting...

5e's roleplaying mechanics are there, but they are underdeveloped. As I mentioned in another thread, things like BIFTs, Inspiration, and Backgrounds are there as character elements that shape roleplaying. Skills allow for non-combat gameplay. These elements lack the mechanical teeth of combat...

Badwrongfunning? Where did I once imply that people who play D&D in a certain way are somehow playing the game badly? I said that skillful play in 5e utilizes the mechanics to achieve a desired outcome. Not using these mechanics to achieve an outcome isn't "badwrong," it just isn't skillful...

@Lyxen, I'm not going to do the point-by-point rebuttal thing because it fails to address the broader argument, and frankly, it often results in the petty, hostile nitpicking demonstrated by the back-and-forths in this thread. The thrust of your post is that my interpretation of the game is...

@Lyxen, I disagree with your assessment on skillful D&D play, regardless of what the D&D books have to say on the matter. As anyone who has played D&D knows, the game described by the rules and the game that is played at the table are two entirely different beasts. D&D has a win/lose state...

I would describe "skilled play" as a matter of utilizing a game's system to achieve a desired outcome. For better and for worse, D&D's primary system is combat mechanics and character builds, and utilizing those mechanics typically clashes with the roleplaying elements of the game (at least from...

"Player skill" is typically invoked within the OSR-sphere to refer to what I am describing. Skilled play in 5e is all of those things (plus character building), but "player skill" traditionally refers to things like probing ahead with a 10-foot pole, meticulous descriptions of safely opening...

And now I'm having flashbacks to 3e. Thanks for nothing!

Exactly, which is why people talking about "player skill" overmuch irks me without fail. Player skill is manipulating the GM into not calling for a die roll or reducing the DC until the dice are superfluous. Player skill is an undeniable aspect of D&D (it's a tactical miniatures game, no matter...

I would mold him from dust and instruct him to eat anything he desires except for the fruit of one particular tree.

This unintentionally highlights why the inspiration system is bad, but that's another conversation entirely.

Player: "Utilizing my thieves' tools, I delicately probe the interior of the drawers, seeking all manner of obfuscated caches, concealed compartments, or mechanistic devices whilst scrutinizing the drawer for evidence that would signify the existence of boobytraps or similar devices designed to...

Y'know, it seems to me that we can discuss our GMing styles and the potential rough spots that might arise in a game, but the nitpicky "your game is bad because of hypothetical X" and "OH, YEAH? How would you deal with this?"-gotcha scenario posts aren't really conducive to a positive discussion.