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This. Hence, I'm not voting. Depends on a lot of things, including, but not limited to: the makeup of the group, and the DM's combat style. For example, a two handed fighter can do a LOT of damnage (that's damn damage!), and a wisdom based Cleric can do a lot of the controllery things, as can a...

First - at least with the flung dagger, or a cleave, you can say "oh crap, I've been hit! run away!". No one flings daggers for 1d4, later in the game (when minions become the sorta "I'm higher level than I deserve, so kill me fast!" instead of the "there are lots of me" of the game) anyways...

But an Attack Power is an Attack by definition. Mostly, do you really think (wis) damage should kill a minion, where (3d6+int)/2 doesn't? Even though the attacks follow virtually identical principles?

No, you have to channel powers through one implement, otherwise a cleric could just grab X holy Symbols +1 and use them all at once. Also, Enhancement Bonuses never stack.

Nah, I'd still qualify the Stinking Cloud as a hit attack, as a missed attack is an attack that didn't hit, not an attack that missed. Or is it? Yay semantics. The ruling is absurd, I'll admit it, but it's also COMPLETELY logical. You're setting up straw men, and knocking them over. The fact...

Cloud of Knives is an At-Will attack. That makes it an attack, I think. Yay words, this is complicated >_< Thank you HyperSmurf though, you seem to actually be taking my argument seriously, though it seems silly and absurd - the whole idea of minions is silly and absurd. EDIT: I love minions...

WHAT!? Where does it say this? If that's an exact quote, that SHATTERS my argument. Actually, not as bad as I first though, as it's still talking about Utility and odd powers, not Attacks. Which does in fact change the way the rules interact. Still, if you can give me a page, that's pretty damn...

There is no inference. A missed attack never damages a minion. I rest my entire argument on that statement.

They are, but they aren't the "full" minion rules, because minions clearly state "a missed attack never damages a minion".

I wasn't expanding the meaning of "miss", I was using the definition of "Missed attack." Is a missed Cleave not a missed attack?

No, they all let you, it's in the Initiate Feat rules.

Your arguments have as much merit as mine - no more though. We are both reading the same rules, but I consider the "reminder" text in the Minion box as a rule, whereas you read it as a reminder of a rule. That is the only difference between our opinions. I humbly retire, thank you Hyp. I'm...

This is not a troll post. The reason I post this is mostly because people misunderstand what a "minion" is. 1 damage does not kill a minion, and that is why Missed effects never damage a minion. So why would this kill one? It's even LESS damage than a missed attack. RAW and RAI, I'm...

It is an Attack Power. Hence, it is an attack. Are you saying that the attack powers that don't have an attack (Wall of Fire) are not attacks? Of course they are. That's absolutely allowed, by RAW. Who cares? No minion is going to do that.

The minion dies. Because then the Cloud of Knives is not a missed attack. This doesn't seem to make sense, but VERY LITTLE about minions does. This is easily fixed, too, as "a minion will not willingly take damage for the team, but standing in the cloud of knives and the taking 3 damage is not...

You people are reading the wrong thing. A MISSED ATTACK NEVER KILLS A MINION. Period, point finale. The Cloud of Knives is an attack. If it misses, it is a missed attack. If it is a missed attack, the "Effect" entry is "damage from a missed attack", as it is Cloud of Knives, which is a missed...

It is not curious at all. It is a straight forward reading of the rules. My only assumption is that the effect is part of the attack. Which it is.

Yeah, I agree. CustServ doesn't though. Well, sometimes it does. The point of the question was as a response to the whole "CustServ said it works!" Not if it misses. If it were just Cloud of Knives, I wouldn't have made the post if Cloud of Knives was the only thing it mattered to :D

None of that matters. Thanks for the quote, it proves my point. Here are the premises: A) Cloud of Knives is an attack. B) Minions take no damage from a missed attack. C) The fact that Cloud of Knives creates an effect does not change the fact that it is an attack. Hence, if Cloud of Knives...