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Aesthetics. People are trying to frame this thing as if it about some unhinged thirst for power or whatever, but what people want is for the classes to be more balanced so that they don't feel like sidekicks if they pick the "wrong" archetype. I retired my previous fighter because I got into...

I made it a separate thread because I wanted to focus on the underlying idea rather than as a discussion of balance itself. It's not so much about balance but whether or not a big part of the conflict is based on the idea that how people experience a particular class or character is a result of...

That's fine. I'm not sure I'm convinced of it myself. The idea came to me after some group talk while playing PF2. We were discussing what things we'd get at higher levels, and I realised the whole "feel" of knowing that things will be available in the future wasn't there in the rather...

I haven't played it since the 90s so I don't know if anything major has changed, but it's definitely not a system without issues. The combat rules are pretty cool, though. Armour is subtractive armour (like Damage Reduction from D&D) and there's no AC. Instead you roll a weapon skill check to...

I don't see how what I'm doing is saying what peoples experiences are or will be at all. I'm trying to understand why people have been objecting to high level mythic martial abilities even in cases where they themselves admitted they never play at that level anyway. And I realised when I was...

I agree that my two groups are not exhaustive, but it's certainly not a false dilemma. I should have perhaps have said something to make it clear that there are indeed more opinions than just those two. Your damage example is a good example of something cool, but it's also functionally just an...

Yeah that's the kind of stuff I want to see at higher levels Subclasses at level 1 and a few more levels dedicated to subclass abilities would be great.

Torchbearer sounds pretty amazing. I've been trying to figure out the rules for a while but they're so different from other systems I've played. Other systems that handle this issue with magic differently: Drakar och Demoner, a very dnd-inspired old Swedish rpg makes extensive use of skills...

Then ignore that point instead of derailing this thread with off-topic comments. Edit: I actually agree with the previous commenter who found that bit slightly mean spirited, and removed it from the OP.

How is it not constructive? Who are you to say it isn't? I have at minimum two other people who seem to agree it is constructive.

Should non-constructive replies be reported? I'm not familiar with how this forum deals with thread derailments.

I got the idea after seeing a few people arguing strongly against unrealistic abilities at a high level because they see martial characters as, like, action heroes from Die Hard and whatever. But yes it's quite fuzzy this whole thing. I agree with allowing casters this flexibility is a problem...

Yes this very subject annoys me, so I have to fight against my own tendency to write stuff that might be consider deliberately provocative. I lost that battle in the OP :P That's a good solution too. I just think it's essential that whatever solution is provided is something that is separate...

You can have entirely functional non-magical healing, since hit points are not meat points.

There are people here who argue that the martial classes must remain strictly "realistic" even at absurd levels of play. While I strongly disagree with their arguments, I agree with one particular thing: The future "potential" of a class colours the play experience. I believe this is why the...

This is exactly what fighters need, though. At high tiers they need more than just the ability to hit harder.

He needs AoE stuff too. Mihawk can sink a ship by himself with a single cut.

This doesn't solve the problem because all it does is give underpowered classes the option to pick spells in order to suck less, but that has nothing to do with the problem. The problem IS that you have to pick a spellcaster to not suck.

While this is slightly off topic and i'll remove this if I break any rules: What issue are people having with the recent MtG releases? I haven't followed magic since like 2010 or smth.

It is obvious that W > F. It is also obvious that W > M. But W > M is much less discussed because the monk is a much less popular class. The monk is too niche. Fighter being too weak is a bigger problem because the class itself is conceptually popular.