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When you look at Tolkien as a comparison for AD&D, I think most people are thinking of "The Hobbit" second most "LOTR" Trilogy (mostly the first 2 books, pre-White Wizard) and 3rd the Simerilon (which defines alot thats not very AD&Dish). Q - What bounds would those be? Early 1e modules had...

Interesting, my take is just the opposite. I think AD&Ds strength is its broad inclusion of elements that allow for a wide variety of settings and player experiances. By not tieing to any one "story" setting (for instance, not going pure Tolkien), the DM and players get to create their own...

Good question. Your correct of course, all of these sources are true fantasy, I suppose I meant more sword and sorcery or Fairy Tales etc (def. Tolkien, Howard, etc.)

BTW I don't mind any of this as a 1 shot deal. The occasional "fantastic" is fine. Its when these things become the norm among publishers (as they scamper trying to outdo each other) that the problems begin, and the player is left with a world with magic lightbulbs, magic cars, magic power...

Shil, I could care less what people do at their own tables. What I do care about however, is the general trend of most publishers to produce non-classic fantasy (which is trendier). Leaving the smaller publishers to support us (I suppose we are the minority).

I suppose my biggest gripe is with designers using magic or monsters as "technology" to create a different general feel of the setting.

Cool, I'll try to track down the "The Assassins' Run" then for starters.

Shil wrote -Which, of course, means that the discovery of such a sword would be exciting and interesting even if the PCs have seen many +1 swords. That's basically what I'm trying to point out. You can have a game world where some magic is common and well known to PCs and simultaneously have...

Sil, you seem to think I like anything "Gary", yet I am not a fan of CZ1 (if you'd care to read the above post again). Your comment: "That's why I think it was unilateral, because it jumped from a couple of specific examples to making a broad assertion". doesn't make since. All magic can...

I agree that 1E was not supposed to nec. be "low magic". The MM treasure tables that include chances of magic confirm this. Also, many of the early modules had alot of magic. Also, the number of monsters taht require a +1 weapon to hit suggests +1 weapons aren't totally rare. But, you also...

Q: "I disagree with how unilateral your assertions are." My assertion was not unilateral, despite your attempt to label it so. Infact, thats why I supplied specific examples of the kind of thing I was talking about (dragons reduced to steeds (or have you ever played the Dragon Lance series...

Ever notice how when ever a monster is overused or becomes too common it makes it seem less "monstery". For instance, the overuse of Dragons (everyone having one to ride on in our high level games) turned dragons (once a cool creature bringing images of Smog into ones mind) into little more...

Does anyone know of a published thieves or assassins guild. Specifically, I'd like something early TSR that shows the rooms (like a dungeon map but for a thieves guild) traps etc. Perhaps there was a published module I missed that PCs clearing such a guild? If not, did any of the early Dragon...

All FRPGs suffer from that Hussar :confused: surely you know that. AD&D however keeps more to the DM and less to the player. Infact, in AD&D the player is encouraged (per the rules) to not worry about rules. Thats one reason its a better system then most to teach FRPGing to newbies. On...

Very nicely put. ;) Thats how we started with AD&D as well, and I think its the way it was intended by the author. I believe the DMG mentions someplace players aren't supposed to look at the DMG or MM (but I'm not sure). Also, I agree the DM does not have to immerse to enjoy the game (they...

Thats why I asked "at what point your not playing AD&D". The debate of which version is better is a waist of time, its based on taste. However, each version has boundaries that seperate it from the rest of the continuim, otherwise you couldn't tell a difference between the versions (yet, if...

You mean kiddie D&D? :D

Hey, I never said AD&D was about deep imersion. I only said that players at some level immerse into the game when they control one character (they are forced to identify with it). I actually play exactly the way you play most of the time. Thats all thats required for immersion though, the key...

I'm not interested in the Websters definition of Role-playing, I'm stating what I believe Gygax meant by it. I have heard time and again role play was really the wrong terminology to use. True "role play" comes out of psychology, and has to do with thing like switching places with your...

When I first played 3E I also got the "videogamey" vibe (as if every possible action has been broken down into a "move" the D20 replacing the video game buttons), and that was a year before I visited my first online FRPG Forum. I was shocked when I saw others had the same complaint, apparently...