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Ah. IOW, "useless to me". Oh well. :erm:

This is kind of off-topic, but: I agree. "The PCs should hit equal level foes about 55% of the time, without taking into account combat advantage, conditions, and buffs." IMO, you've fixed the "Expertise" math problem fine...and it's not why this particular PC is giving you conniptions.

Whip? (Which book?)

"Lootlump" "Lootlump", "Lootlump", "Lootlump", "Lootlump"!!!! Most excellent. Thanks, PC!

Blast. I was thinking he was 8th. Doh. :o So, if he has a 20 Dex at 6th, then his initial stat buy (pre racial) was: 17, 14, 13, 13, 11, 8 For: Str 13, Con 13, Dex 17, Int 11, Wis 14, Chr 8 (then add racials and +1 4th lvl) ....which is really abyssmal, IMO. His attack stat is only 17...

Nope. The class feature would be even more deadly if he hadn't taken the hit to his attack roll. The sacrifice is there. (Plus he could have taken 3 feats to increase his damage, etc.) Remember that the Avenger class is built to be a striker. Unlike Barbarian, Sorcerer, Ranger, Warlock...

Cool! He's spent 3 feats to get there (Leather Prof, Hide Prof, Imp. Armor of Faith) of the 4 he gets for 6th level. That's not an insignificant sacrifice. He also needed a Str 13 and Con 13 (for Hide Prof. feat), and since the class requires neither of those stats (Avenger needs Wisdom...

I admit I'm still a bit shaky on the Treasure Parcel system. They use the word "parcel" in a few different contexts, which makes it confusing. Is it true that over one level of adventuring (roughly 9 encounters), a party of 5 should gain 4 magic items + X gold? ...and is that called a...

It clearly states a least three other things about Intimidate checks as well, and then places all of these options in the DMs hands....as has been said a number of times now. The only wild, purposeful misinterpretation of the rules is that there's only a Will +10 DC = surrender to worry about...

I game with a few of these people. My sense is that they "just want it to work"...and just hope that it does. Examining the math of the game (etc) is the antithesis of fun for them, so their working assumption is "Everything printed is right." Full stop.

Good Question! Perhaps to help out all the DMs out there that are cowed by players with PCs with super-high intimidate scores, we should make a list. :D If a PC successfully intimidates a monster:The monster refuses to attack the intimidating PC for 1 turn, The monster only attacks the PC...

You did? <goes back, reads over KD's post carefully> Oops! You did! :o FWIW, the quote bracket you used (in which you transcribe the WotC developer comments) looked like it came from GMforPowergamers, as you had quoted him immediately above that. My mistake! Anyway, I *still* don't like...

What actions are included in the phrase "cow a target into taking some other action"? I think it's pretty safe to say: "Quite a few, only one of which is dropping their weapon and pleading for mercy".

BTW, we really do need to put the final nail into the coffin of the "Intimidate = I win" idea: Is "surrendered" a condition? What are the game effects of "surrendered"? What is the duration of "surrendered"? Etc.

Uhm, not quite. Of the three effects listed after the "Success" bullet point, you may not cause "a bloodied [minion] target to surrender" because it can't be bloodied. However, you can "get a target to reveal secrets against its will, or cow a target into taking some other action". Since the...

No offense meant, KarinsDad, but you were paraphrasing what Chris Perkins said. That's cool an' all, but: I want to know *exactly* what he said. Actually, I want to know *exactly* what WotC officially says about their (group) reasoning behind the Expertise line of feats. One guy (say, Chris...

Oooo...that would be good.

:) Flipguarder nails it in one! Well done! :lol:

Is that the entire rules text, or just the part that interests you? The text says: Who gets to decide which of those three actions a target will take?

Thanks, GMforPowergamers, but....uggg. I do NOT want to listen to 14 minutes of drivel to get to a passing reference of something I'm interested in. I want them [WotC] to issue a clear (typed!) reason behind these feats that I can read.