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A mook with 50 hp can be kill edon a failed save to a 10d6 fireball, dragon sorc +5 damage and empower. It won't happen all the time, but it's not a particularly low chance of occurring either. Average damage would be 47. Slightly above average rolls and you've achieved killing the 50 hp foe...

@Kinematics Special Request can you add a line for chromatic orb with Elemental Adept Feat and explain your calculation. I've went mind blank on that one as well.

Empower on 10d8 Chain Lightning with 5 cha mod is +8.77 Damage. *Note: for my earlier fireball estimates I had an error on spread sheet. They were actually a bit higher. For the 10d6 fireball it should actually be +6.57 Damage.

I've adjusted your fireball numbers to more accurately account for the Empower Charisma mod limitation on rerolls. Level CastFireballw/Empower% Gain 10.000.000% 20.000.000% 395.20114.66120% 4133.88160.23120% 5178.50212.04119% 6229.08269.89118% Not very large differences...

1. What spell DC were you using for fireball? 17? 2. How are you calculating seeking and empower for Chromatic Orb. I've been trying to think that one through. And for seeking are you assuming only a single of the attacks can be rerolled?

Isn’t it 5?

This is not technically true. If you could reroll any number of dice that’s what it would come out to, but since you cannot then it won’t reach that potential max. Consider the 2 cases where you could reroll any dice and you had 1 roll below 3 and the other where you had 9 rolls below 3. That...

It should be slightly better for the bounce than adding an additional dice by upscaling the spell, right?

Straight Fighter it would, but if you want damage early you still pretty much go battlemaster. I should note that for battlemaster I'm only including the d8 damage manuever dice in calculations (and not saving them for crits) because I think menacing is highly worth it on an archer and timing...

To me the issue here is plain as day. D&D started with 6 abilities. You remapped those to 4. Of course you can say everything in D&D corresponds to those 4 simply due to your remapping. Couple that with the fact that the game was created with those 6 abilities in mind so of course...

I've calculated Empowered for fireball. Using +5 Charisma and before accuracy is considered. The 8d6 version is + 4.1 Damage The 9d6 version is +4.8 Damage The 10d6 version is +5.5 Damage The 11d6 version is +6.1 Damage If we add these numbers to the fireball damage from evilbob's post above...

For Chromatic Orb, would elemental adept increase the bounce rate?

@evilbob I used my formula above to calculate the average damage of CO using your accuracy and bounce rates. I also removed hex since hex is single target and you are attacking 5. My updated average damage with chromatic orb was 175.8 Although, I think you are overestimating the accuracy. I...

High AC targets. CO damage drops like a rock.

The point is the saves (no matter how many) cannot be easily balanced to each other. This isn't a trivial exercise. There's is no Holy Magic Number of Ability Scores/Saves.

To balance the game you cannot just balance a single dungeon. You have to balance every potential dungeon. Inevitably that means you have to create binding rules for the GM to follow that doesn't allow them to stray outside your designed balanced space. The GM has to agree to follow that...

It's not that hard to calculate true average damage (maybe accounting for seeking and empowered makes that hard). But for just the spell itself. All attacks have the same innate hit and bounce chance and DPR. However, there is a chance for an attack to occur that depends on the previous...

Here in the real world 5e already has 1 save per ability score. Here in the real world 5e doesn't have balanced ability scores. Players are still mechanically incentivized to dump certain character stats. What you are proposing has already been tried out in the wild and has failed to deliver...

That's simply not true. Currently in 5e all the attributes do provide a specific saving throw defense. The game already is doing what you suggest. It still doesn't work the way you predict because the monster attacks targeting each save aren't balanced.

And even then, once you have sufficient hp/defenses to last a few direct damage hits then whatever best defends against status effects is likely better. Whether that's due to the effects it defends from being more debilitating or common or some combination. So not only do they need to be equal...