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Yes, fair enough.

Yes, and the medieval chroniclers themselves just very frequently exaggerate massively, for a whole host of reasons. We always have to take their numbers with a grain of salt.

There were not 'hundreds of thousands' of troops at the Battle of Grunwald. Don't let the exaggerations of the chroniclers confuse you. No battle in the Middle Ages involved 'hundreds of thousands' of troops, as the logistical apparatus of the time did not support it. Even the largest battles...

It was reported on Terry's Facebook page by his sister that Terry passed away. It is not known how or why he passed away, only that it happened some time this past summer. Terry was a co-founder of the original Iron Crown Enterprises which produced the Rolemaster, Spacemaster and Middle-Earth...

Seems like the Bethesda/Rockstar approach: Repackage mostly the same stuff, with a few tweaks and quality of life upgrades, and resell it again and again. After 7 years, the lack of depth in 5e is starting to show. It's been fantastic at getting new players into the hobby, but there's only so...

Actually, you started edition warring by saying how much 3e dropped the ball by trying to give clear rules, and how awesome 5e was because it does not give clear ones. Then you started issuing ultimatums to me to make a choice, then criticized me for criticizing the lack of clear rules, all the...

I had forgotten that there were thought police who would try to forbid people from criticizing rules after they learned what they were. Happily, there actually isn't any rule like that on these forums, and anyone is free both to ask what the rules are and criticize the ones they think are poorly...

Fair enough. I'm glad you can play the way you want, and thanks for your perspective.

Playing by RAW doesn't mean you give up the right to criticize rules you think are poorly designed. As I said, I'm playing strictly by the RAW this campaign. If I ever play 5e again, I will be houseruling a great deal.

Thanks for posting that Oofta. I listened to that part. He says that a DM could rule that characters can't tell the location of an invisible creature if for example a barbarian was yelling, or explosives had gone off, or they weren't paying attention. But then he says that it is also acceptable...

We're not talking about crazy cases and obscure rulings. We're talking about basic movement and stealth. There should be clear and consistent rules for that. I could make my own system in 5 minutes by just saying, 'The DM will decide everything.' But that's what I pay WotC for -- so I don't...

I think I am pretty clear on the RAW now. I guess the thing that bothers me about the 5e rules for invisibility though -- the root of maybe why I find these rules a little odd -- is the idea that people automatically know the location of invisible beings. Yes, people make noise when they walk...

Ok, that makes sense. The characters definitely weren't leaving any tracks (Pass Without Trace eliminates them), but I think they would be making some noise, even if it was muffled by the Pass Without Trace.

My main goal is to figure out what 'the book' says. :) I'm trying to run this campaign strictly by the RAW. The characters were moving across a dressed stone floor of a Temple, but there was some commotion and shouting outside, as two armed groups were in a shouting stand off. By the RAW, then...

That's a good point.

Yes. It would seem (RAW) that even if a character is Invisible and has Pass Without Trace on him, he is still located by default when he moves so long as he is not taking a hiding action. I find that a bit hard to explain. Unless perhaps we are saying that that 'veil... of silence' is not total...

That actually did come up once before so that's fine; that's a good explanation. I'm having a harder time explaining why monsters can still locate the target of the spell when he is invisible (but not hiding). The general rules seem to be that an invisible creature can still be located because...

That is how I ruled it too, but I do still understand why my players were a bit unsatisfied with that interpretation. The PHB does say I believe, '“The creature’s location can be detected by any noise it makes or any tracks it leaves.” The description of Pass Without Trace then specifically...

Thanks very much Plaguescarred. How should I be explaining Pass Without Trace's mention of a 'veil of shadows and silence' to my players? Should I say that the 'veil of shadows' doesn't really count as light or heavy obscurement? And would the 'silence' mask the footsteps of an invisible...

Sorry to be a bit of a thread-necromancer, but the following issue came up in our game last night and caused strong differences of opinions. The issue was that one of the characters cast 'Pass Without Trace'. The text of this spell says, A veil of shadows and silence radiates from you, masking...