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The last caster is gone. The half-caster remains vs. the non-caster! Love them both at this point, so will the Paladin's light lead the voters to getting the win, or with the Thief steal the show?

Then all this falls under either "Spells are too powerful" or "Too Large a Spell List"... But again, many of these aren't exclusive to wizards. Only three of your examples (Find Familiar, Simulacrum, Wall of Force) are for Wizards only. So, really, more of the "Spells are too powerful" issue...

Well, I have heard people make this argument but also include combat spells as well, so I wanted to clarify your position. How are these the same sorts of consequences, though? A barbarian doesn't have to roll to enter rage, a fighter doesn't need to roll to use second wind, a rogue doesn't...

So does than mean you'd be downvoting Ancients now since it is in the lead? ;)

Wow, 4 votes in a row to up Ancients and down Thief... This Survivor certainly seems to go in bigger "waves". No more than 15 votes will settle it I think, and as few as six. So, it should be concluded today. :)

Then do we take away saving throws? Because that is the roll to see if something happens (sort of). Spell attack rolls are already there as well. We just don't have rolls for utility-type spells. (To be clear, I agree with you, I am more playing devil's advocate...) What is the inherent risk...

It would be crazy if somehow Lore pulls out the win!

Yeah, I thought about that myself. We'll see.

Yeah, I don't think I've ever seen a movie where a "wizard" had the same casting capacity as a D&D Wizard PC.

Barbarian: Path of the Totem Warrior 6 Bard: College of Lore 4 Fighter: Battle Master 0 -- This was one battle you could never master. ;) Paladin: Oath of the Ancients 6 Rogue: Thief 11

This is what we started doing over three years ago, but since then adjusted it so short rests are 3-4 hours (we go back and forth on this...) but kept long rests at 24 hours. Basically, we tripled resting times and it works well IMO.

Did I? So, not even a Wizard, then? Which with a 65% hit probability increased to 88% for a single attack, really isn't that impactful. And with just 1 hp, easily removed from combat depending on the encounter. Is it a good strategy? Certainly, but again not so much a Wizard issue specifically...

Sorry for being unclear: I was referring to the core class, Wizard. Do you think this is part of the issue with too large of a spell list or more of a separate issue? I feel it could be a separate issue, which I'll add to the OP if you concur? Excellent post! Hmm.... I would have thought all...

CORRECTED SCORES: Barbarian: Path of the Totem Warrior 10 (post 716 to 717) Bard: College of Lore 4 Fighter: Battle Master 9 Paladin: Oath of the Ancients 9 Rogue: Thief 13

Well, at the time I posted them, I only had my commentary. Others have theirs in their own posts. When people post issues I didn't think of, I added them. Some of the current posts have issues, but I am trying to figure out if those issues call under one of the originals I posted or is its own...

Awesome! Thanks for the clarification. So, with advantage but no DEX, chances of failing were about 50/50 or maybe 60/40 depending on the DC. Close enough to 50/50 probably that is wasn't really just totally a bad roll (like rolling a 3 when you needed a 5 or 6 to succeed). Any reason the...

LOL I would downvote the lowest to get it out sooner. :D

The core class really isn't all that powerful. It is their spell list and the spell designs which are too good IMO. Definitely! I agree with this completely. It is part of the OP about too large of a spell list, but I often see the same spells over and over again, such as the examples you give...

It could be but that is a lot more work than I want to do just to fix the GWF style. ;)

Yeah, it has sailed for certain, but for the same reason I was never a fan of kits in 2E, either. My groups play 5E, so I am basically stuck with it. Honestly, I commonly just go with the defaults or popular options, but most of the time feel like they are just mechanical benefits which either...