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I'm left to wonder about casualty lists from actual historical battles, which usually list two to three times as many wounded as killed - and the weapons normally used were swords, spears, guns, and artillery. I guess those battles just weren't very realistic.

I think this illustrates one of the things that the pro-3e people have been saying: in 3e, there were often multiple, albeit slightly different in mechanics and tone, paths to get to similar ends. In 4e, it seems like the design team wanted to make sure no one took the "unfun" options that were...

Once again, you haven't bothered to read what I actually wrote, but instead decided I said something I didn't. I didn't say the fighrter/barbarian would "suck". I said I thought it would be less fun to play than the bard/monk. For someone who gets "offended" that I don't think you read the posts...

The issue isn't "it is hard to make a ahcracter that sucks". The issue is that everything else appears to have been subordinated to the goal of ensuring that choices are limited so that characters don't "suck" in one specific area, and that one area is now the only thing that matters to the game...

The question is not one of "need". We had an edition where this sort of flexibility was a given. This edition says that flexibility is "unfun" because we might make the "wrong" choices with it. So, now you can't make the character you want, but have to settle for something else, because if you...

Except that we aren't talking about characters with a single core class who has made "standard' choices in his development. I don't think anyone has said that this sort of character is generally "sub-par" (as was asserted that someone who was something like a bard/monk would be). Sure. But the...

The oracle wasn't a cleric, but perhaps one of his (now jobless and looking for some quick cash) assistants is.

So what is the gateway game?

No, because the house rule isn't the basis for the point I was making. It was asserted that no group of D&D players would put up with someone as a member of the party who was "sub-par" in their ability to contribute to combat situations. I listed several examples from my own experience in which...

That's pretty much a question of DMing though, isn't it? I mean, if you play a social skill heavy rogue and the DM includes zero opportunities to use social skills, that's not really the fault of the system. It seems that the authors of 4e simply decided that the only element that matters is how...

Wow. A lot of assumptions there. The frequency by which opponents are defeated by social skills in a campaign is campaign dependent. In some campaigns, its all about whacking the heads off goblins. In others, its about negotiation. And not all "monsters" are orcs, or similar beasties...

Only if you very narrowly define what is important about a character. If the only thing you care about is who is the biggest combat monster, then sure, the fighter/barbarian is better. But for the ability to do noncombat stuff, the fighter/barbarian is left in the dust. Sometimes, sure. That's...

Yes, but U2 also provides ways for the players to obtain that information - in other words, the information has been developed. Most of the examples I gave are from background created by DMs in adventures I've seen. Some are from old published adventures - the curate example is from B2, and...

This. Plus, staying with 3e.

Yes, they do sound interesting - but the players will likely never know about a lot of them. "The orcs have recently elected a new chief" sounds cool, but it is usually what I would call false detail, because the characters will never know about it. They are going to track down the orcs and kill...

A corollary to this is an error I see a lot of DMs make (and which I have made in the past, but try to avoid now) - designing backstory and campaign material that never affects the players. This is not, in and of itself, a problem, but it is often accompanied by a lack of development in areas...

I don't find this a particularly strong criticism of 3e - not all half-orcs are necessarily "unpleasant in notion". Yes, the classic version has them as the product of rape, but that's not the only plausible back story. I'll just say that there are a lot of people in the real world who are into...

DM fiat - the player proposed an alteration where he traded his sneak attack ability for the sage like abilities. I don't remember the exact exchange, but I think he had something like bardic lore, all Knowledge skills added to his class skill list, and a bonus skill point every level that he...

And 3e supports this type of game and a combat oriented game in which all the PCs are hyper-optimized combat monsters. 4e doesn't offer that range of possibilities. To me, that's a step backwards in game design. Like I said before, if I wanted a game in which characters were defined, in game...

Maybe. Arguably the most "sub-par" PC I ever played with or DMed played through Forge of Fury (and numerous other combat oriented adventures) without any real trouble. Personally, I'd prefer to have players who play the PCs they want to play, in a campaign that they like. If they want to try to...