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Gygax agrees. From Dragon 1979:

Here's what I use when playing 1E. No 4E stuff, though.

You're playing word games. You said for Gygax, "some part of hit points is morale", and that's not true. In AD&D each hit must cause some amount of actual physical harm.

Wow, surprise, suprise. Every time I ask for validation on this stuff it comes up empty. I remain very skeptical.

I said no such thing. You're being ridiculous and playing ridiculous word games. Discount all available evidence and make up whatever fantasy you like. You have that right.

Well there you go -- you didn't say there were claims of records "as far as we know". You would have to know 1E and 2E sales to establish it as a true record. Of which I am skeptical and seen no evidence or official claims. Most of that stuff didn't even exist in the 1E/2E era. Can I get a...

That's ridiculous. The statement from Gygax in the 80's is "some old number made by a man who did not necessarily have enough information", but vague PR cheerleading thrown out decades later is the gold-standard "an employee of WotC has gone on record"? Come to think of it, we also have...

No, Gygax never, ever used the word "morale" in the context of hit points.

Wow. Just... wow.

Perhaps the word "record" does not mean what one of us thinks it means. Can you name one or two of the "all sort of records" which have supposedly claimed to be broken by 4E?

I think I'll have to go with the slight evidence from Gygax/ TSR/ WOTC (see above) over your countering opinion. Unless you have any better data.

Quibble: There aren't actually any statements on "record sales" from WOTC. Every time we try to track down that rumor, it comes up empty. For example, see the thread over here: http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/244372-so-how-sales-d-d-4th-edition-product-6.html

Maybe you missed the point that I've been very carefully quoting you, from post #31 earlier in this thread: As I said in my first post to this thread -- I'm skeptical. Or are you now willing to disavow the claim that "Mearls, Rouse and Slavichek all post about how 4e is breaking all sorts of...

Are you seriously arguing that everything before, after, and around 2E was messed up as a business, but not 2E? Are you at least aware that TSR went bankrupt in the 2E era? This is the best data we have to work with: - Gygax said in 1987 there were some 5 million D&D players. - WOTC estimated...

That's very similar to a poll done here at ENWorld 2 years ago: http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/171146-when-did-you-start-playing-d-d.html While non-scientific (not a random sample), having seen this in multiple places, I'm guessing that that's pretty much exactly what...

So everything else that TSR did in the 90's was rubbish, but 2E was a golden child of profitability, beautiful in all ways? I think not -- all of these were missteps from the same company running in the wrong direction, around the 2E era. The concensus I've always is heard is that 2E drove old...

That doesn't quite jibe with the way you quoted me above. :) But at any rate, you can see how we're all coming up empty with the supposed "breaking all sorts of records" citations.

You're subtly changing your argument. Your original comment was about sales figures: And my point is that the critics of 2E were, business-wise, proven to be correct by the late 90's.

I think this is broadly the same sort of defense I heard around the 2E era in the early 90's.

Again, I have no doubt that 4E is selling a bunch of books, that's not my beef. More sales than the "last couple years" of 3.5 material, easy to believe. But re: "breaking all sorts of records" (per post #31), you just quoted Joseph Goodman saying the following, which I count as contradicting...