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The cliff notes version is fine if you don't contradict the past canon. A new start is fine and something I would actually agree with. However, we are not getting a new start. We are trying to make a new shirt out of an old pair of pants. When I put that shirt on it will look mighty funny...

I think your making my point for me. Leave the core vague so it doesn't create a problem. Then publish some planar stuff in a detailed book. Leave it out of core. Instead what WOTC is doing is rewriting core which I sure will make Planescapers more upset.

A rewrite is one thing. It tries to cast off baggage that already saddles the author. Why upset the historical references in the game? Why not just start with something new and fresh? That would be an amazing idea! Cast off historical references without tampering with them. That way you...

I threw the sacred cow around a bit but when I personally refer to sacred cows I usually mean mechanics and gameplay....Vancian magic, AC, HP, 6 abilities, etc. Some things are more canon or DND lore. Things like Vecna, elemental planes, cosmology, elves, etc. Some things are not DND...

More classes will sell more specialists books which is why I stopped buying 3.5 books years ago. I guess I'll do the same with 4E. Just the core mam.....just the core.

Erik, Just curious why you thinks its an intelligent move? The mongoloid stillbirth is turning me off a bit. I respect everything you have done with Greyhawk in Dungeon and I am not even a Greyhawk fanboy. I think Paizo stayed pretty true to Greyhawk from the Dungeon adventures my DM ran...

I would argue that's not the case. If it was so successful it wouldn't have been licensed away or been on hiatus when no one was producing it. I guess the level of success is relative. FWIW I highly enjoyed the setting

It's fine. So is Eberron. Those settings will change or evolve over time due to influence of new authors which alters the original setting. The important point is that they are settings. GH may be core DnD simply because it was the first. Much like settings evolve, so should the ruleset...

I hadn't thought about this but you may be on to something.

I'll give you that mechanics changes may be someone's house rules....arguably they should be a lot of peoples house rules because we as players detect a problem and change it. The idea that we are playing in Gygax's homebrew is true, but he INVENTED the game. At some point the old editions...

Also I just want to go down in history that the 4E Tiefling in core will = 3.X drow. How that race ever made it into the core book is beyond me. Why there isn't a generic plane touched entry in core with all of the relevant planar races as sub groups I don't know.

I can see where you're coming from with this idea. I don't want stripped down rules with no flavorful text. You can describe in great detail a barbarian with his enraged fighting style and strange cultural nuances with enough flavor to capture the imagination of the reader but don't have to...

No you are taking my point to the opposite end of the spectrum. If the fluff adversely affected your gameplay then perhaps it is a problem that needs to be changed. If it didn't impact you then it shouldn't be messed with or burned to the ground as you say. :lol: I got a great laugh from your...

The great wheel is at least a point of reference for those of us who played. It does come with baggage but that helps everyone see things from a relatively common point of view. I would have no objections to changing the GW but describe why it happened....Asmodeus staged a coup d'etat and took...

By problem I mean something that effects your gameplay and prevents you from having fun. Alignment is something I don't enjoy and have essentially done away with or marginalized when I DM. It becomes a problem in that it is intertwined in spells, magic items, etc. In regards to gameplay it...

I threw out several lines and apparently everyone bit on cosmology (to keep the fish jokes coming). I was looking for reaction to the overall fluff. I find it a bit frustrating that in the recent playtest report: "Bonecrusher zombies and a zombie hulk go into the reliquary. That’s a bit...

You may have like it and others may not. I happen to be in the not camp. One of the things I am trying to get at with my post is did you think there was a problem to begin with or is it more of a reaction along the line, "Yeah, I like what you're doing here"?

I agree that it isn't Greyhawk, but Greyhawk sort of was the original setting for 1E and as a result the Great Wheel is "generic" DND cosmology. More importantly, was that something that really concerned you as a DnD player? Or to clarify is that something that you had on your wishlist to get...

I think the same barrier exists in GH as Gary no longer has control of it. It's just that GH didn't have a novel line to "support" it (I like your use of irony quotes). Had the tables been turned I think people would complain GH was overdeveloped with NPCs, organizations, detailed kingdoms...

I can't wait until May when the new books come out. The mechanics of 4E will hopefully fix many of the problems associated with 3.5 without generating too many new problems. My latest reservation is some of the fluff changes they are making: Elemental planes more hospitable, demons/devil...