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byronD - That is indeed why the ignore list was created. Goodbye.

byronD - Usually, when you post in a thread I start, you are being tiresome and derail it. So given that you are not interested or willing to discuss the topic, I would like you to stop being tiresome and derailing this thread by being negative. Either talk about potential pitfalls of this...

Viking - That does have a lot of good ideas, though my gut tells me it might be needlessly complex. I like the formula for determining how many boxes you get, but I'm not sure about the threshold for a solid blow. It seems like it would get frustrating to turn a low damage blow into an...

The thread about HP/Healing Surges got me to thinking that perhaps the problem of "realism" is HP itself. HP is basically a flexible system of randomly determining how powerful each successful attack is, and how well the character can withstand it. What if however you were willing to...

Ah, excellent. Thank you.

So I'm rolling up a Vistani, and I really like the idea of a thief that is clairvoyant. I'm also really like the essentials thief, since I hate daily and encounter attack powers (no matter the class). So is there any way at all I can get the Level 1 encounter power of my seer theme with my...

Listen guys, I'm making these three claims. 1) Save or die means that the possibility is there that a character or even a party can be destroyed by a few bad rolls, regardless of how skilled you are. Sure you might be able to ensure that you have to take a save or die roll less often by...

DannyAlcatraz> Yes... but are you going to take a 10th level character that you've adventured with for 2 years who is in the middle of a world shaking plot, and toss him into the Tomb of Horrors? Of course not, unless you don't give a damn about whether you want to continue with that character...

Dannyalcatraz - Yes, but my point is that Tomb Horrors isn't good for a narrative game. It is good for a dungeon crawl where you kill multiple fast-generated characters, not for telling a story about that character.

byron - A knife to the head instantly kills you do. Why isn't a knife to the head a save or die attack, like poison or a disintegrate spell? Why doesn't poison or disintegrate do damage instead? What reasoning makes it "more realistic" to have a save or die from magic, poison or other effects...

RaveN - We are talking in circles here. You accept that you can get a bad TPK or a character death with one or two save or die rolls and say that you won't cry about the bad luck. Then however, you say that you can avoid the bad luck through smart playing and you make claims that I'm not...

Jameson Courage - In 4e you can die for sure, and you can have a TPK. However, if you survive the encounter having healing surges, restoring encounter powers and shrugging off disability generally means you aren't stuck in a place with no way out. This is what I've argued all along. People...

RaveN - You must have more magical items or spellcasters by 6th level than I do in a 2e game. If you have 4 players, and an enemy spellcaster gets off 2 save or die spells, then how is that anything but a matter of luck? Sure the players can make choices to avoid those save or die spells, but...

Jester - Argh! I've said 10 times now that this isn't about people who know they are low on resources but continue on into the dungeon anyway. It is about pre-4e games where you get destroyed in a single encounter because of bad luck. If the save or die defenders can't take my words at face...

Lanefan - I have played some of the 2e encounters with minis, I have spent hundreds of dollars on minis after all, so I might as well use them. It still holds up that 2e is faster, but the minis aren't actually useful for much except determining where everyone is standing. 2e would be a much...

RaveN - The first quote is clearly explaining the aftermath of a party that had a bad single encounter. The first line mentions bad luck quite clearly. The second quote mentions the type of game I don't want to have, and I'm quite clear about that too. It is just the type of game that is...

D&D Basic though was retired because it required support for two different fan bases, one of which was significantly smaller than the other. So it generally was a waste of money to cater to both, when they could more efficiently cater to one. If we were to have different versions of D&D, we...

Jester - Oh please, save or die doesn't challenge players any more than a coin toss challenges those who wager. The only games that can end on a single roll of a dice aren't games of skill, they are gambling games of chance. The only thing that save or die proves is how unfair the DM is. If...

RaveN - Please do get me that quote, because I think you are not understanding me correctly. In my mind at least, it was always because bad luck can destroy all of your resources. The whole thing that got this thread derailment going was arguing about healing surges. Since healing surges are...

I also think some of you have to realize that not everyone is spoiled for choice in players. I like in a rural area myself, so I'm confident I know every D&D player within an hours drive, because I've gamed with all of them. So I don't have the luxury of only choosing the hardcore. Nor has...