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Oh, to be clear: Screw that section of text with a backhoe. I don't actually hold that BS in any of my games regardless of what setting I'm using. It's irrelevant and ridiculous, to me, to try and declare a defacto structure that applies to all campaign settings in the multiverse. However...

After our previous arguments and the way they've gone down, where you often provide no argument or position -except- to try and argue that I and others are wrong, it truly feels like it's an almost automatic response. It took me four posts of asking you to actually take a position of your own...

I can see that, sure. It feeling like a workaround for Defiling and Preserving does make sense... but Defiling was meant to be the easy path to power in the setting. You got a shorter XP table if you were a defiler as a reward for embracing evil and would level up as a Wizard faster than if you...

Not really. With you it's been a continuing problem that has caused arguments through your dismissive attitude. With him it's just not that kind of relationship, yet. He may get there. He might not. But everyone gets some chances before I put my foot down. You've just already run through...

... I don't think you grasp the point I'm making. The Martials in question move and attack and do so in manners specific to them, with unique mechanics to make them moving and attacking different from each other, whether tactically or in the sheer quantity of their attacks. They are designed...

You must've hated the Clerics and Druids back in 2e that also ignored Preserving and Defiling, then, too, I guess?

Yes. You explicitly are. I stated as much. I was explicit the entire time that I was referring to the differentiation of Martial characters being well represented in their gameplay mechanics while for Spellcasters (And specifically the Psion, Sorcerer, and Wizard) it wasn't really different at...

Except Psionics is also Magic. They use the word magic over and over and over and over again. The Weave is also required to cast Cleric and Druid Spells, Paladin Spells, Warlock Spells. So "Defiling" can't have any kind of effect on the Weave for Arcane Spellcasters (Wizards, Warlocks, Bards...

And with the same system they do it all differently. Monks hit a whole lot of times and move around a lot. Rogues hit very few times but REALLY HARD and move around a lot or do it at range. Fighters and Barbarians tend to be the most alike, wading into combat, but where the Fighter often relies...

"One D&D" is both 2014 and 2024 together. And in 2014 they included this: The Weave of Magic The worlds within the D&D multiverse are magical places. All existence is suffused with magical power, and potential energy lies untapped in every rock, stream, and living creature, and even in the air...

That is a bald faced lie! Pecos Bill is happily married to Slue-foot Sue! She road a catfish down the Rio Grande while shooting clouds out of the sky with a pair of pistols!

Which is why I included the caveat in parentheses. I'm referring to the class identities being unique and well represented in the system, not overall mechanical power.

Not really? Folk Culture has long been a part of American cultures and subcultures. It just tends to be more regional than national 'cause America is freaking big, geographically, as far as nations go. And people in Appalachia don't really identify with the folk cultures in the Midwest or...

Oh, I don't doubt subclasses make a difference. They make a difference for the Fighter, too. Or the Barbarian. And provide distinctly different combat styles and goals for the Monk and Rogue, as well. But on their face, the -baseline- Barbarian, Fighter, Monk, and Rogue all fight differently...

They are. Yup. This is one of the hurdles they have to jump, and would've had to jump when it was the Mystic. I'm not saying it's insurmountable. Just that it's a problem. As far as the Weave, that was more about how they've made ALL MAGIC (including Psionic 'Magic') dependent on the presence...

So your position is a broad agreement with the design issues with the addition of a lack of time to focus on Dark Sun and a retreat into the issue of slavery being a thing in the setting. 'Kay. This is a position that I can understand and engage with. And I don't think any of it is...

Tall tales, myths, and legends are all told in the same way. The protagonist faces some quasi-impossible challenge and through a quirk of their birth or some impossibly powerful skill accomplishes the task anyway. Whether that's Hercules, Pecos Bill, Gilgamesh, or the Monkey King. They only...

Once again: Make an argument as to what is the actual cause, rather than just trying to pick apart my arguments and posts. I'm not interested in a debate or discussion where one person forms an argument to present a proposition and the other person spends their time trying to tear apart that...

A Fighter, a Rogue, a Monk, and a Barbarian are all Martial characters. They move and they hit things. That's their baseline mechanic. But HOW they move and hit things tells a story that gets you invested into a specific character fantasy. Rogues do a lot more moving and ranged attacking...