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Zero? I'm more like at negative...

That's just Vancian but worse.

I was thinking of Scion as a name for the latter.

Even if we take you at your word, the sorcerer isn't a wizard subclass mechanically. If anything it is the other way around. It is trivially easy to write a custom sorcerer subclass that covers 80% of a wizard without even getting overpowered. It is very hard to make a custom wizard subclass...

But you are making a categorical mistake. Sorcerer isn't Wizard but hot. Wizard is Sorcerer but lame bookish.

Yeah, we've danced this dance before, neither was satisfied. Maybe if we could focus on what we want instead of what we don't want? https://www.enworld.org/threads/brainstorm-sorcerer-upgrades.703731/

This isn't about the sorcerer anymore. Hasn't been in while. Hopefully a plus thread will be more productive: D&D 5E - Brainstorm Sorcerer upgrades. (+)

Yeah, we'd need a sorcerer advocate in the design team.

Ok, the other threads are full of off-topic and sorcerer hate. So, let's open a thread to brainstorm ideas for sorcerer. This thread is a (+) thread, so no calls for erasure or merger please, and no derailing with whataboutism. Some venues of discussion I've gathered from the previous threads...

For a second time in the thread, I agree.

A power ranger/henshin hero?

@Micah Sweet traditionally, WotC is weary of both metamagic and spontaneous casting. It has been a long learning curve for them. They have been very careful with having them. Just notice how hard they penalized the original sorcerer and how much the current sorcerer has to pay for both. There is...

It is a mechanical and party dynamics problem. You choose your cantrips at first level, so the value of the extra spell list is diminished if you get it later. Also, you cannot be your group's primary healer anymore because you can't heal at all for a few levels. (Also, the loss of twin spell...

Nothing can fix no longer picking subclass at first level.

Too bad One D&D is killing them.

Let's not forget that sorcerer is a playable class in 2e as well.

Nah, wizard subclasses are boring because wizard is an inherently boring concept.

Microlite had three, Strength, Dexterity and Mind, then added Charisma somewhere else.

It really depends, not all tropes are the same. Some are more inspiring and some are more trite and played off or just less interesting. I sometimes like to play against type, sometimes I just look for the class that helps me the best to play a trope, and some times I just want to play the...

Fighter (Str) Rogue (Dex) Barbarian (Con) Psion (int) Monk( wis) Sorcerer (Cha)