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As I've indicated before, I think it applies to the system across its lifetime. I've said why before, but I don't see this thread as a good place to repeat it again, so its the last I'll say on the subject.

What about my post made you think I thought that? I don't think you can do a conventional superhero game in a simulationist fashion because of the baked in genre conventions, but its not about the power level. You can absolutely do people-with-powers games in a simulationist way. I don't...

I'm playing with people I've played with from years to decades. I try to remember how far this puts me from the situation of most people.

Bold of you to think they wouldn't find some set of problems with any other game.

"Simulation" does not necessarily have to map to our reality. Some people even think it meshes okay with genre emulation, but I personally think that's a different beast. But going down that rabbithole would be a massive side-trip for this thread, I think.

Oh, believe me, I get it; I'm a poster on a D&D-centric board who really doesn't want anything to do with D&D proper, even if I don't have the hate-on about it I did 40 years ago. Only reason I'm here, honestly, is the other places I've found that are broader the tone puts me seriously off, and...

Oh, naturally. Any extra tactical choices are. What I'm questioning is whether the extra is significant at the recording-and-remembering end the way things like conditions are. I'd expect people to become more used to it, at least. But I think that's a different thing than conditions. PF2e...

Its more the kind of kind of repeated hand-wringing about it that gets a little odd, man. I mean, my taste in game design isn't exactly the dominant one any more (look at any thread about high versus low crunch) but I don't spend a lot of time bemoaning it, even though I'd probably struggle...

To be clear, I'm not hostile to them. They aren't probably supprting the kind of tactically rich and deep-delveable games I prefer, but neither are lots of other people in the hobby, so, so what?

I'd suggest you're conflating at least two things together, there: 1. Published changes. Yeah, nothing you do is going to change those settings for the overall use, because they're published and what your GM does will have no effect on the publishers use of the setting (the only case I know of...

Though to what degree that is, in practice, true can vary considerably depending on campaign type and structure. People playing most published adventures are almost certainly clear that the borders of that are anywhere from somewhat or very constrained, for example.

I'm not sure what makes you think that big parts of the hobby aren't already in that direction. As I said, it was 50 years ago. I mean from your POV the move away from simulation concerns probably wasn't ideal, but that ship also sailed a long time ago at this point.

I think the idea is that position ends up needing to be managed in a game with maps anyway, where things like conditions are extra actual bookkeeping. I kind of get the point since I try to at least put condition flags on tokens in VTTs whenever possible to remind people there's something...

I don't know why it should be depressing that some people are very casual with the hobby; there are plenty that are with any other hobby, why should this be different?

Its probably one of those things that varies immensely depending on game culture as much as age. There were people who liked playing non-humans, even non-humanoids a half centrury ago when they had to do all the heavy lifting themselves, and some of them still are around. I've got one player...

Sure. But new people are coming in all the time and older players leaving, so assuming token play is attractive to newer players, you're always going to see plenty of it. In addition, people who expand don't necessarily do so into ways that care intrinsically about setting. Some end up going...

As I've noted before, there are people who were there for token play from day one.

Not realizing there are plenty of people in the hobby that are very shallow in their approach doesn't make them not exist. Maybe you want to avoid them if you can, but they aren't going away.

I started to respond to this, and then remembered that now that the OP has clarified his intent for this thread it'd be effectively threadcrapping.

Well, honestly, the term has probably become applied to too many not-really-similar things in both fiction and games, but that boat has long since sailed.