D&D General ‪What does the word “dire”‬ mean to you?

[Beleriphon]

Morrus, I think there's a distinct lack of language definition here. I live in Canada and I don't think either of the definitions are actually accurate.

Dire by definition means terrible, horrible, in a dangerous context.

It is not that something is a poor example of whatever noun dire is be used as an adjective with. Applying that to a wolf doesn't mean a that a dire wolf is a particular poor example of wolfiness, it means it is a terrible, horrible, dreadful wolf.

It is used in the same context as catclysmic, extreme, or catastrophic. Dreadful is another good one, but in the way Terry Pratchett might have used it; full of dread, not mundanely bad.

To quote the man himself in regards to elves:

Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.
The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.
No one ever said elves are nice.
Elves are bad.

 

[cbwjm]

I went better, British as I'm a kiwi and we use UK English, I've always thought about dire creatures as larger, smarter, and more ferocious than their regular counterparts.

 

[Charlaquin]

American here: to me it generally means extreme. Whether extremely good or extremely bad depends on context. Just like “great.” Usually, it holds a connotation of danger.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[robus]

It’s not a language definition thing. You’ve just sided hard on option 1. You live in (North) America. It’s expected.

If you lived here in the U.K. you’d be used to the “poor quality” usage.

“That TV show was dire.” Means it’s rubbish.

I think that’s a pretty recent change though? I don’t remember calling things dire in the 80s? (when Dire Straits were at the top of the charts)

 

[MarkB]

It’s not a language definition thing. You’ve just sided hard on option 1. You live in (North) America. It’s expected.

If you lived here in the U.K. you’d be used to the “poor quality” usage.

“That TV show was dire.” Means it’s rubbish.

I also live in the UK, and I'm familiar with the term being used in both senses - as something calamitous and dangerous, and as something of poor quality. I'd definitely consider the latter to be a more colloquial, 'slang-ey' usage of the word.

 

[Charlaquin]

I mean, it’s the same as a lot of things that mean bad, right?

Terrible, horrible, horrific, horrid, dreadful, awful... All things that can mean either “bad” or “scary.”

 

[Orban Sirgen]

I'm American... "Dire" means "more dangerous than normal"...

 

[robus]

Not in South Carolina, I imagine. I think you might be missing the point here!

Hey some people move in their lifetimes I’m a west country/channel island lad (mostly) by roots.

 

[cbwjm]

Dire creatures only exist in D&D. So you’re saying you adopted the D&D definition of the word (which was the American usage, as the publishers of D&D are in America).

The question is, then, did you associate the word with anything other than fantasy creatures?

I guess I associated it with urgent to overcome something bad as in a "dire need of X".

I don't think I've ever considered it as poor or inferior, although someone must have commented at some point that something "seemed a little dire." I may not have fully comprehended what they meant but it is definitely a sentence that I've come across before.

 

[MarkB]

I mean, it’s the same as a lot of things that mean bad, right?

Terrible, horrible, horrific, horrid, dreadful, awful... All things that can mean either “bad” or “scary.”

Exactly. Just like you can have the big, bad wolf, who's terrifying, and a bad actor, who's pathetic.

 

[Beleriphon]

It’s not a language definition thing. You’ve just sided hard on option 1. You live in (North) America. It’s expected.

If you lived here in the U.K. you’d be used to the “poor quality” usage.

“That TV show was dire.” Means it’s rubbish.

Probably, but I think it's a very colloquial usage. That is to say used in a way that doesn't literally mean what the word means. Nuit blanche is a colloquial French term for a sleepless night, but literally translated it is white night. Just like cool, to describe somethings ephemeric qualities of being good has nothing to do with its thermal properties.

I'm sure if if Winston Churchill ever gave a speech about the dire situation the country was in nobody would take it to mean mundanely bad like a TV show being not very good. I also suspect, as other have suggested, is that dire in the UK being mundanely bad is relatively recent.

In North American usage we tend towards the bad, as in catastrophically bad, usage of dire. That isn't bigger or better, its bigger and more horrible that the normal version version. I'd never describe an improvement on the previous generation of sports car as a Dire Corvette for example (although I want to see that as a D&D monster now that I've thought of it).

 

[robus]

Sure. That's what I'm asking. I'm trying to discern a regional divide in usage. Canada is very much in the "North America" set, it seems!

You’re absolutely right that UK youth slang has adapted dire to mean shoddy or poor quality, but it’s not the only meaning in the UK. Perhaps asking “when you hear the word dire what do you think of?” might have been a better phrasing?

If I was asked on a test to define “dire” I would not use shoddy, because I woukdn’t expect them to want the slang interpretation.

 

[Charlaquin]

Sure. But what does it mean to you? It a less common word than "horrible".

I ask because to me it really does mean "poor quality". And it's not just me - the joke has come up in every gaming group I've been in since I was a kid, undermining every 'dire' creature up to and including Game of Thrones. So clearly there's a common usage which struck us as comedic, but you not so. I don't think you can reason that way!

Who’s trying to reason anything away? I’m just answering the question. Dire means the same thing to me that horrible does, and that meaning is dependent on context. If someone says “that show was dire,” it means it was bad. If someone says “this election will have dire consequences,” it means the outcome is of great significance. If someone says “you’re being attacked by a dire wolf,” it means one of these things: Dire wolf - Wikipedia

 

[Lanefan]

Canadian.

Cannot vote, as you made it single-choice and there's two correct options depending how the word is being used:

Better (bigger, more ferocious) - when used as in dire wolf, dire badger, etc.
Worse (or 'very serious') - when used as in dire straits (not the band!), dire problems, etc.

 

[Tonguez]

To me, dire means "dreadful." A dire wolf is a dreadful wolf...one that is bigger, tougher, and more ferocious than your garden-variety wolf. So I voted "better," and I speak American English.

(Well, mostly. I've picked up a bit of British pronunciations and spellings from my wife.)

This, a dire situation is one were there is imminent threat of things going badly, when things are seriously dire then they are taking a turn to the dreaful, a dire wolf is a dreadful, dangerous beast.

In no way is Dire better or even bigger - the coronovirus is a dire threat of microscopic proportions

oh and I live in a Commonwealth nation so more British, although US television and movies has seen a shift in language over the past 40 years or so.

 

[MarkB]

Sure. But what does it mean to you? It a less common word than "horrible".

I ask because to me it really does mean "poor quality". And it's not just me - the joke has come up in every gaming group I've been in since I was a kid, undermining every 'dire' creature up to and including Game of Thrones. So clearly there's a common usage which struck us as comedic, but you not so. I don't think you can reason that way!

Maybe just a running joke among your friends. I've occasionally seen similar, but it was never a particularly prevalent reaction. Most of the time, when the players hear the word "dire" in front of a critter's name, the reaction is "oh crap", not "oh, that's crap".

 

[jgsugden]

I am American and always thought of Dire Wolves as "Extra Deadly Wolves".

Monte Cook introduced the "dire" animals in D&D 3e, according to his blog:

When we were developing 3E, we recognized that we needed animals that could serve as appropriate foes and allies for mid- and high-level characters to help druid and ranger abilities continue to be valuable. It was my idea to create "dire" versions of various animals, based on the dire wolf/wolf dichotomy. (I know, it only makes sense in a D&D sort of way.)

Dire Wlves are (extinct) real wolf types: Dire wolf - Wikipedia.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

Although whether the real dire wolf was better or worse than the regular wolf at wolfing is a matter for some debate: after all, the dire wolf went extinct but the regular wolf is still here.

 

[HarbingerX]

Canadian English. Dire == bad.

Dire situation
Dire consequences
Dire Wolf