Xris Robin
First Post
No, we infringed on copyright.
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10:1 illegal downloads
- Thread starter Endur
- Start date
Asmor
First Post
You're presupposing a few things with that statement.
1. That copying data is theft (it isn't).
2. That whatever you're downloading without paying for isn't meant to be distributed that way, e.g. linux distros, albums or movies offered up by the creator(s) for free, etc.
Granted, I'm being nitpicky, but if you're going to throw around terms like 'mens rea' then I fully expect you to know the difference between theft and copyright infringement and to use the correct term.
These metrics can be misleading. In the recent Swedish trial against the Pirate Bay, the defendants claimed that there was a known bug in the tracker software they were using that gave numbers that was too high. I think it had to do with cancelled downloads counting against completed ones or something like that.
I don't think piracy is a counterculture. I mean, certainly dedicated pirates are, but do you remember Napster? You ever been to Youtube? A lot of forms of copyright infringement are just plain parts of our culture at this point. So yeah, for some reason that I can't imagine people tend to respond negatively or elusively when asked directly if they've committed crimes. It doesn't mean it's rare bad apples that will quietly fade away.
Staffan said:
Interesting. I don't run a BitTorrent tracker and I've never had to implement the BitTorrent protocol myself, so I just assumed the completed download stat was accurate.
Treebore
First Post
I know in one of the court documents they specified just over 1,000 DL's from Scribd, and just over 1600 views. Did they give such numbers in the other records?
If these numbers are representative of all those being taken to court, well, I won't say what I think, since it will be WOTC bashing.
If these numbers are representative of all those being taken to court, well, I won't say what I think, since it will be WOTC bashing.
SteveC
Doing the best imitation of myself
I just wanted to comment on this whole issue of "the illegal downloads were 10:1, no one was buying the PDFs!" line of thought.
Not many people purchased the WotC 4E PDFs, but whose fault was that? WotC. Why? Because they didn't want to sell many of them. When 4E launched, I was THRILLED that we were going to see PDFs of our books either for free or for a nominal fee. Of course that didn't work out due to logistical issues, but also because WotC saw electronic distribution as hurting their position in the trade, both with mom and pop stores, as well as the big distributors. The Rouse even said as much!
I buy PDFs. I've literally bought hundreds of dollars worth of them over at RPGNow. What I won't do is spend an outrageous amount on them. $20 for a $35 dollar book? No thank you. The intention of sales of PDF 4E products was largely to give access to the books to people who couldn't get them in other ways. If WotC had put the price at a lower point (say $10) I would have purchased each and every book they put out.
If there was a real guarantee of support and update for the books (like, say, Green Ronin does) I would have increased that total to $15. For me, the purchase of True 20's PDF and Mutants and Masterminds have been fantastic, because Green Ronin stands behind and supports the products on a phenominal level.
So the question: "OMG! Why weren't people buying our books in PDF?" has a simple answer: because they were deliberately priced so that most people wouldn't buy them.
--Steve
Not many people purchased the WotC 4E PDFs, but whose fault was that? WotC. Why? Because they didn't want to sell many of them. When 4E launched, I was THRILLED that we were going to see PDFs of our books either for free or for a nominal fee. Of course that didn't work out due to logistical issues, but also because WotC saw electronic distribution as hurting their position in the trade, both with mom and pop stores, as well as the big distributors. The Rouse even said as much!
I buy PDFs. I've literally bought hundreds of dollars worth of them over at RPGNow. What I won't do is spend an outrageous amount on them. $20 for a $35 dollar book? No thank you. The intention of sales of PDF 4E products was largely to give access to the books to people who couldn't get them in other ways. If WotC had put the price at a lower point (say $10) I would have purchased each and every book they put out.
If there was a real guarantee of support and update for the books (like, say, Green Ronin does) I would have increased that total to $15. For me, the purchase of True 20's PDF and Mutants and Masterminds have been fantastic, because Green Ronin stands behind and supports the products on a phenominal level.
So the question: "OMG! Why weren't people buying our books in PDF?" has a simple answer: because they were deliberately priced so that most people wouldn't buy them.
--Steve
Thats correct. There is no such thing as 'illegal downloading'. Its 'illegal distribution'
Obryn
Hero
Everything I've seen from them says they simply don't want to out-compete their retail sales (and thereby potentially harming their bookstore & hobby store sales).
That's a pretty big difference from "priced not to sell them." Unless you have some better evidence for your supposition?
-O
However 'Colour of Right' comes into play here in terms of possession. You are right about the difference between downloading and distribution but mens rea does apply.
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