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10 Absolute Truths about the World of D&D

Arkhandus said:
But wizards in the core rules have no implications that their power requires special talent or gifts or quirks. Anyone, in a RAW D&D world, can study and learn to cast Magic Missiles, Mage Hands, Prestidigitations and Expeditious Retreats. Only sorcerers are implied in the core rules to require some kind of magical gift or bloodline to use their magic. Divine casters are of course referred to as receiving their power from divine forces, and must adhere to certain tenets and alignment restrictions to receive power from any given deity. But people are going to trust their local pastor, just as in the real world, even moreso if that pastor can visibly and undoubtedly heal the injured, cure the sick, raise the dead, smite evildoers, and instantly repair broken objects with a prayer.

True. and the Sorcerers is implied that it can be a latent talent brought out with training, so hence the multi-classing allowance.

The rest of your post ties back into the idea of "absolute alignment" and "Gods are real". Lots of things in the D&D world are proven by other things. However, lets take a step back: does every priest or paladin scan every townsfolk, traveller, and prespective neighbor? Would neighborhoods account for this? Could you run a man out of town because the church priest deemed him "evil" (happened alot in history, why not in fantasy?) Would alignment become another "divider" like race, sex or religion? Could there be signs that read "Employee wanted: no evil people need apply" or is it evil itself to discriminate against evil people. It makes the head hurt if you think too hard.

However, if you prefer to gloss over it and assume humanity wouldn't radically change by the knowledge that people can be detected as good or evil, then alignment plays less of a role. It all depends on how you would put your emphasis.
 

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Kestrel said:
Not to derail, but isn't Eberron built on these truths? I thought that was the point of the setting?

Interesting thread btw.

I also think this is an interesting thread. As for Eberron, here is how I understand it:

1.) Concrete Alignment: Per the RAW this is true. Characters can detect alignment, and there are spells and effects that are dependent on alignment. Eberron is a little different though; there are no restrictions on clerics following the same alignment of their "god" and creatures can be of any alignment, regardless of their original stat block entry. I think for Eberron in general alignment is a measurement of intention and outlook, not necessarily a measure of deeds.

2.) Magic is just a career: This is absolutely true in Eberron. The magewright is an excellent example of this.

3.) Adventuring is a legit trade: In Eberron there are several adventuring guilds and organizations designed to legitimize "adventuring", including the Digger's Union, the Wayfinders, Deathsgate, Clifftop and Morgrave University .

4.) Adventuring is the quickest route to self improvement: Advancement rules for for PCs only, not NPCs. Since there are only about 4-8 PCs out of millions of NPCs. For an NPC, becoming a reoccuring villain is the quickest route to self improvement.

5.) There are 1,000s of Sentient Races: By default this isn't true for Eberron. There is a place for everything in Eberron, including 1,000 of sentient races, but they aren't there by default.

6.) Faith, Religion, and God is Real: This isn't true in Eberron. The "gods" have never intervened, and their existence is subject to scrutiny.

7.) There are beasts too terrible to mention: Very true.

8.) Magic is Everywhere: True, probably more so than in other settings. It's "mass magic" though, not "high magic".

9.) Death is not the end: For most in Eberron it is. High level magic is more rare in Eberron than it is by the RAW. The NPC chart for population demographics is skewed for a large number of low level magic users with high level magic users more rare. It is very, very difficult to find resurrection magic unless you can cast it yourself.

10.) The only constant is change: This is probably more true in Eberron, as the setting focuses on shapechangers like Changelings, Shifters and Rakshasas.
 

JohnSnow said:
Well, it all depends on whether "magic" is something anyone can do, or whether it's something you have to have some form of "gift" for. IF anyone can do it or learn to, you're right that magic is just a career.

I don't think it depends on that. It depends on whether magic is useful or not, no matter who can use it.

But, if you have to have a gift, magic is more likely to be viewed differently. People are mistrustful of that which is strange. Combine this with the old adage: "power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely," and you have the makings of a world where most people don't want to hear about "magic users," have no interest in going to them for help, and are more likely to turn them over as dangerous threats than go to them for help raising the town. These are people who, at the heights of their power can read your thoughts, get into anything you own, and basically TAKE anything they WANT. It's not a stretch of human nature to assume people would mistrust letting ANYONE have that power.

Of course, it would assume that people expect wizards to do that, even ones "on their side". People also fear nuclear weapons, at least those in the hands of their enemies. On the other hand, most people want (or at least believe it is necessary to have) nuclear weapons in the
hands of those friendly to them. Sure, you fear powerful out-of-control wizards, but the only reliable way to stop them is to have your own.

And, of course, this doesn't even begin to consider the usefulness of having a wizard around on a day to day basis. People accept all kinds of danger if it makes their life better. We have coal mines and power plants that blast carcinogens into the air, cars that kill thousands of people a year, and we pump highly explosive natural gas into our homes. We do this because we like having electricity, easy transportation, and heated homes. Despite the fact that these things kill many thousands of people every year. Wizards are useful like that.

As such, most peasants would avoid them. Most people in power would try to control them, suppress them, or kill them before they became a threat.

Or, peasants would go to them to get problems solved. The people in power would ally with them (or wizards would become the people in power), and nations that educated and cultivated their wizards would dominate their neighbors. Suppress and kill off all your wizards, and the next door country, who has spent time educating and developing their wizards will invade and destroy your nigh helpless armies.

I won't go into ALL the fictional examples, but consider just a few:

1. In the Wheel of Time series, only some people can channel. Men who can have a tendency to go crazy. As a result, while commoners recognize that channeling is real, they don't go seeking channelers out for help - unless they have no choice. The Seanchan go one step further and leash ALL channelers (wilders anyway) so they can't be a threat. They don't acknowledge that those who can control channelers could learn to channel. It's anathema to their society.

2. In the X-Men comics, only some people have mutant powers. Those who don't have them react very naturally by distrusting those that do. To the extent that they can, they try to persecute those people before they can become a real threat. They figure that what can't be brought to heel should be eliminated. A few mutants with really scary powers is enough to convince "the powers that be" that ALL mutants are dangerous.

3. In Star Wars, only some people have the necessary connection to use the Force. As a result, when the Jedi are hunted down and killed, it takes only a generation for people to conclude it's a "hokey" "ancient religion." Belief in it is more a matter of faith than fact, as few people have ever really SEEN anyone do" jedi stuff." Those who are old enough to remember are dismissive of the force because acknowledging its power is inherently dangerous.

All of these examples, being drawn from the tradition extant in the real world where magic is feared and sitrusted, are entirely irrelevant to the question of how magic would likely be treated in a world in which magic is a normal part of existence. If magic were real, they would likely react differently than they do in the fictional worlds in literature rooted in popular perceptions built up over centuries of magic free history.

Plus, your arguments are wrong. People in the Wheel of Time series don't fear spellcasters because they are rare. They fear them because many such figures in history have gone nuts and killed massive numebrs of people. In the X-Men series, it was generally renegade elements of "the powers that be" that targeted mutants, and many people thought the mutants were okay. And using the silly nonsenical cosmology of Star Wars to justify anything is a dangerous area to get into. For example, during the Republican era, Jedi were loved and respected in many areas, despite being rare and unusual.

Once it's "restricted," basic human nature makes magic rare and less likely to be used. Even if a wizard seems benevolent, who hasn't heard stories? How can you trust anyone with this level of power and moreover, why should you?

This is true of anyone with a character class and enough levels in D&D. It is not unique to spellcasters in general, let alone arcane spellcasters. Plus, consider that sorcerers and bards, as arcane spellcaster, are likely to be among the most likable people around. The friendly personable guy down the street, he's a sorcerer. Not the misanthropic hermit who lives in the marshes.
 

Why, in fantasy cliches, are wizards distrusted when clerics generally aren't? Clerics are the one serving mysterious beings. Clerics are the ones in charge of death cults, creating undead and sacrificing people to destroy the world.
 

People will love any group, however that group may be defined, that does well by them. They will fear any group that has never done well by them, and MAY do poorly by them.

People who live in circumstances where the police are more likely to protect them tend to like them. People who live in circumstances where the police are more likely to suspect them tend to dislike them. People who feel no need for police but have never been bothered by them are still likely to distrust them as potentially hostile authority figures.

In the Wheel of Time, there were two kinds of channelers, those who could do it naturally, and those who could be taught. Natural channelers would do so whether they were trained or not, and could hurt themselves or others. Male channelers were universally feared and despised, because they inevitably went mad and would do ill. Attitudes toward female channelers varied. In the border lands like Sheinar, Aes Sedai were respected and even appreciated because they fought against the Blight. In other lands, they were mostly feared because of their power and influence. Among the Seanchan, channelers were kept as slaves, untrusted to operated without direct supervision.

In the X-Men universe, people with superpowers are clearly divided into superheroes and super villians with the exception of "mutants." Stan Lee created mutants as a metaphor for the civil rights struggle, and in the process created a set of supers who were "OK" and a set who, for somewhat nonsensical reasons, were "not OK." Nobody ever tried to regulate Captain America. A better example is the Pixar film The Incredibles. Supers were appreciated, until the amount of damage caused reached some critical mass. Then, they were persecuted and forced to go into witness protection. In other words, when they did mostly good, they were fine. When they possibly started doing more harm than good, they were no longer fine.

In the Star Wars universe, the Jedi served as a combination of police, mediators, and special forces during the Old Republic. They were appreciated by the law-abiding. In part, this was because they adhered to a VERY strict set of rules intended to prevent abuse...so strict, it can be argued, that they led directly to their downfall. Once they were no longer helpful, it was very easy to portray them as abusive and dangerous. By the time of the New Jedi Era in the expanded universe setting, it was easy to get people to turn on Jedi.

In the Babylon 5 universe, human telepaths are grouped into the PsiCorps to "keep them under control." They are feared because of their power. Their aggregation allows them to become a major power on Earth (unlike the Seanchan channelers in Wheel of Time, who were never allowed the freedom to organize or associate).

Here is what I would predict would happen in a fantasy universe.

If EVERYBODY can use magic at least a little, or with a little effort, then wizards and such will be just specialists...no different from professional athletes or doctors.

If only a few people can use magic, then that few will either be persecuted and/or wiped out, or they will rule directly or indirectly, or they will transition from one of those states into a protected state similar to the Jedi in the Old Republic.

If many people can channel, then they will be enslaved, or they will become an aristocratic or dominant class in society, or they will be segregated into a separate class of citizens with specific rights and restrictions.

Those are the options, and the OP is positing that the RAW specifies the first circumstance, where pretty much anybody can learn to cast spells with the right training and minimal ability.
 

Tonguez said:
1. In 209 BC the Sons of Mars (Italian Mercenaries) in Greece captured the city of Messina and held it for 20 years

<nitpick>Messina was a Greek city in that it had a Greek population. But it was in Sicily.
 



Wow, this is a debate-filled thread, so i'll just add one little message...

Old money, new money, it all spends the same.
The coins could be silver, gold, copper or platinum. they could be extracted from a dragon's hoarde, or just brought over from a far away land. They could be thousands of years old, or cleverly produced forgeries. They could come from inside the linings of the stomach of a particularly nasty monster or just be GIVEN to the players by a wish or miracle. They all spend exactly the same. (well, until the forgeries are detected... then there's a problem.)
 


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