10 years was too long.

[Ranger REG]

Whay can't it be a game book?

Well, for it to be a complete game it has to have a set of rules and a setting. IOW, if D&D is going to feature Greyhawk as its default setting, it would be nice to have a chapter about it.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Um, yeah, ars Magica 3 in `92, Ars Magica 4 in `96, so i can see where you got teh impression. But that was also a fairly minor revision, all things considered. I'd say less than the change from PH&DMG AD&D1 to PH&DMG AD&D2. And Ars Magica 5 is `04/`05 (last month). That's 8 years, and a much more substantial revision, but still nothing like the revision from AD&D2 to D&D3. (Especially since the change from AD&D2 to D&D3 is roughly the same amount of change as from AD&D2 to Ars Magica 3.)

Hmmm, I think that you think ( ) that I am criticizing Ars for the revisions - I think that the revisions were fairly major - not to the central magic system, but combat and background material were all handled very differently in all five editions. I have purchased each edition in turn and do not feel robbed or shorted in any way. I love the game. And while I give away the previous edition when the new one comes out I hold on to the supplements with an iron fist.

And lest someone think I was disparaging CoC for their minor revisions - the point of those revisions is I think twofold - they happen when stock in the warehouse gets low, and it encourages brick and mortar stores to purchase the 'new' edition. A surprising number of stores do not bother with restocks - they will only buy what they perceive as new products. Most of the CoC editions since v. 5 have mentioned on the web site that no major revisions were taking place.

The Auld Grump

*EDIT* Why the heck did I write 'three' when I meant 'five'? Must be deflation...

 

[Belen]

Ten years seems fine to me, Merric. I was happy playing 2e and it took me 6 months to switch over.

However, I am ready for something new right now. Personally, I will probably switch over to AU or Midnight and get away from WOTC 3e rules.

I want a GM-friendly edition.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Oh, I'm not saying that I dislike the hardcover format; I just note that other publishers (Fantasy Flight & Sword & Sorcery come to mind) release hardcovers for $20 - $25.

Just wanted to note that this hasn't been true for a while. Most S&S books are easily in the $29.95 to $34.95 range and some, like Arcane Evolved, are going to be $49.99.

 

[woodelf]

Yes, great strides were made over the period - over the whole period, not just the early part of it. And those strides were not made cohesively, or by one person, or that anyone was doing good concerted gathering of data from the gaming public. Steps were made hither and yon over teh course of a decade, and it took a great deal of time to learn which of the steps were good ones, and which were not.

So, I'm not really sure that they would have been ready to make a decent 3E much sooner than they did. Nothing would have been served by putting a new edition out sooner if that edition stank like a pile of rotting hyena livers.

The vast majority of the "innovations" of D&D3E were already present in Ars Magica's 3rd edition ('92). The rest may have already been around, or, at the latest, showed up in RMSS or Feng Shui ('96). All the bits to create D&D3E were available at least 5 years before it actually came out.

 

[JoeGKushner]

The vast majority of the "innovations" of D&D3E were already present in Ars Magica's 3rd edition ('92). The rest may have already been around, or, at the latest, showed up in RMSS or Feng Shui ('96). All the bits to create D&D3E were available at least 5 years before it actually came out.

I could be dead wrong, but I believe that many of those "innovations" came from Rolemaster as well.

Monster Experience based on Character Level vs Monster Level requiring cross referencing of charts? Check.

Skills that must be purchased every level and have different cost? To a lesser extent, (i.e. combat skills aren't purchased and the wide range of skills aren't present.) Check.

Background Options that let you do interesting things with your character? We'll call those feats and allow 'em at every say, third level.

Ability for character scores to actually improve as the character goes up in level?

Now some of those may be a stretch but Rolemaster was certainly one of the building blocks of the new edition.

 

[Mystery Man]

I could be dead wrong, but I believe that many of those "innovations" came from Rolemaster as well.

I think you are correct. I believe Monte Cook stated that somewhere? Can't remember where.

 

[Desdichado]

Ten years is just fine with me. I'm still pissed off about 3.5, to be honest with you. It wasn't needed yet at all and struck me as a money-grabbing sucker punch.

 

[Mystery Man]

Ten years is just fine with me. I'm still pissed off about 3.5, to be honest with you. It wasn't needed yet at all and struck me as a money-grabbing sucker punch.

It was more like a sucker-punching money grabber. I'm the punched sucker who's money it grabbed. While I'm happy with 3.5, I still can't find a damn thing in the books when I need too.

 

[Henry]

I think you are correct. I believe Monte Cook stated that somewhere? Can't remember where.

Well, Monte was a Rolemaster Designer, and Johnathan Tweet was an Ars Magica designer, so it doesn't come as a complete shock that ideas from BOTH those games found their way into D&D...