D&D 5E 10HP Bonus for Level 1 Characters. Thoughts?

wedgeski

Adventurer
I don't see as it would break anything but honestly, I find 1st-level PC's quite tough as it is, depending on party composition and player experience I guess. Max HP + Con, and a DM with a little sympathy towards the plight of first level dudes, has resulted in zero 1st-level casualties at our table.
 

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I don't see as it would break anything but honestly, I find 1st-level PC's quite tough as it is, depending on party composition and player experience I guess. Max HP + Con, and a DM with a little sympathy towards the plight of first level dudes, has resulted in zero 1st-level casualties at our table.

The first playtest had a lot higher starting hp. Didn't feel right at all.
I think the problem rather lies in kobolds an goblins having too much dex. Just give them 12 dex and everything is fine.

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Well, a group of 4 level 1 players should be able to fight a single CR 1 monster. Let's take a bugbear, he can deal 4-18 damage per damage. 12-18 damage can potentially instant kill a fully healed PC already. And the bugbear doesn't even need a crit for it. On a crit, the instant death is almost guaranteed already.

So yeah the HP do seem a bit low on level 1.

I've seen tons of groups that died already at the first battle in LMoP. And many character that got instantly killed on the first battle "boss battle" in LMoP.
 

akr71

Hero
As others have said, if that is what you want to do, go for it.

I don't really see a need as level 1 goes by so quickly. I also want my players to feel like every encounter early on could be deadly so that they learn to plan and learn that avoiding a fight is a totally viable option. If I did want the players to be more hardy, I do like using the CON score at level 1. I would even entertain the CON score + 1d4.

What I do allow at my table is max HP levels 1 through 3. It gives the characters a bit of a buffer if they roll poorly, the monsters roll high or I have thrown an encounter at them that might have been too much for them.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
The only times anyone has ever started at 1st lv with more than 1 HD+Con bonus in my games are:
1) The AD&D1e Ranger - by the book they started with 2 HD.
2) Possibly some class out of Dragon magazine back in the 80s - we tried a bunch of stuff & it's been 30some years, so you'll forgive me if I don't recall all their details....

I would NOT give 5e characters bonus HP at 1st lv. They start at max+Con bonus. That's plenty to see them through their first 300xp. And the real reward for surviving to 2nd lv is becoming 50% tougher (assuming you aren't brave enough to actually ROLL your HP & opt to just take the average).

What I would do? Two things:
1)Consider just starting at 2nd lv (or higher).
2)Look at the adventure/encounters I'm planning to run. Perhaps if I'm thinking of starting you at higher lv, adding free HP, etc I haven't written up a lv1 adventure & need to adjust something?


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Celebrim

Legend
Well, a group of 4 level 1 players should be able to fight a single CR 1 monster. Let's take a bugbear, he can deal 4-18 damage per damage. 12-18 damage can potentially instant kill a fully healed PC already. And the bugbear doesn't even need a crit for it. On a crit, the instant death is almost guaranteed already.

So yeah the HP do seem a bit low on level 1.

I've seen tons of groups that died already at the first battle in LMoP. And many character that got instantly killed on the first battle "boss battle" in LMoP.

There are at least four good reasons for making 1st level characters less squishy:

1) The example you here cite of the fact that a single bit of bad luck can kill even a well played character at 1st level. As a general rule, I feel the game system is doing its job when deaths when they happen, consistently feel earned, in that the players can see that there are decisions that they could have made that would have avoided the death. Preferably deaths occur when the player can see that a long series of decisions led them to a point that they ran out of options: leaping before they looked, rushing in despite "Look at the bones!", separating the party, and so forth.

But the other three are IMO even more important:

2) Frees up the DM to use more elaborate designs and greater variety when designing adventures for 1st level characters. One of the problems that you face as a DM designing adventures for 1st level characters is it feels wrong to make the characters face anything that does more than about 1d3 or 1d6 damage on an attack. In most editions, I've avoided even using orcs against 1st level characters. With less squishy 1st level characters, you can just choose from a wider variety of monsters.

3) Cures the 15 minute adventuring day. I'm surprised this hasn't gotten more attention yet. The big problem from the perspective of a DM with 1st level characters is that it's too easy to exhaust their resources. They have no spare hit points. They have very few spare spells. It's not merely that you want the characters to be able to survive two orcs or a bugbear at 1st level, but that you want them to be able to push through 4 or 6 encounters and a couple of non-challenge rooms before needing a long rest to recuperate. You want the players to do enough in the adventuring day that they feel, "Yeah, we did a lot today." You want them to have some stamina and be able to endure some time pressure.

4) You don't have to rush past 1st level. To me, this is the most damning about the current design. The designers made 1st level go by so quickly, they surely had to know that at some level 1st level wasn't fun. Instead of fixing that directly, they have tried to work around it by saying, "Well, it may not be very fun or very interesting, but at least it is over quickly." This is not a defense of the existing system, and those that bring up how quickly 1st level goes by are proving the original poster's point IMO.

The game has been moving away from squishy first level characters since 1e. The same people complaining that you shouldn't give 1st level characters nonetheless embraced max hit points at first level, or death at -10, or other rules for slow dying, and everyone able to get full Con bonuses. All of these innovations were meant in part to solve the above problems. All have proved inadequate because at the same time they were adopted they tended to inflate the ability of monsters to dish out damage. Tweaking the existing design is I feel perfectly warranted, though you should take care that when you pull on one thread of a system it tends to be connected to a lot of other things and you may need to do other 'mending'.
 

Celebrim

Legend
The first playtest had a lot higher starting hp. Didn't feel right at all.
I think the problem rather lies in kobolds an goblins having too much dex. Just give them 12 dex and everything is fine.

Attribute inflation bothers me as well. Every time I redesign a monster, I find I tend to give it lower ability scores than the RAW. It seems like designers feel every monster needs to be a genius, charismatic, dexterous creature with more constitution than an ox. Nothing can be allowed to be ordinary, except maybe the PCs.
 

Horwath

Legend
HP at 1st level should be low.

I see a 1st level fighter/ranger/paladin as an army grunt who just finished 8 week boot camp and can barely know which end of a weapon to point at enemy.

You are cannon fodder.

If you survive a battle or two(3rd level) then you can be thought about military tactics and become maybe an officer.

HP's are an abstract value. A sword slice crit (or in modern bullet hit) is enough to kill everyone. That is about 15-20 damage.

So how does a 6th level leftenant survives that blow and 1st level private kisses his arse goodbye? Knowing not to be in the line of attack/fire in the first place.
 

Attribute inflation bothers me as well. Every time I redesign a monster, I find I tend to give it lower ability scores than the RAW. It seems like designers feel every monster needs to be a genius, charismatic, dexterous creature with more constitution than an ox. Nothing can be allowed to be ordinary, except maybe the PCs.
I wouldn't be as harsh. In the playtest low level monsters had a bit too low stats. This made the game a bit too easy for inbested players (e.g. playtesters). I just think they went a little overboard with goblins and kobolds and maybe even orcs. Making the ogre not really stand out with traditional 18 or 19 str.

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Sacrosanct

Legend
Well, a group of 4 level 1 players should be able to fight a single CR 1 monster. Let's take a bugbear, he can deal 4-18 damage per damage. 12-18 damage can potentially instant kill a fully healed PC already. And the bugbear doesn't even need a crit for it. On a crit, the instant death is almost guaranteed already.

So yeah the HP do seem a bit low on level 1.

.

I guess it depends on what you're comparing to to. Seems low compared to 4e? Maybe. But certainly not 1e or 2e. PCs are a lot MORE robust compared to those editions.


Also, and I think this is being missed, is that when 5e came out, they explicitly stated that level 1 and 2 were for those gamers who like the zero to hero model. For those who liked their PCs to start with a lot more stuff, that's what level 3 was for. Both types of gamers were getting what they wanted, and if you make level 1 PCs a lot more robust, then you're taking away the preferred style of an entire group.
 

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