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13th Age: what would you like to see next?

Dungeoneer

First Post
I'd like to see an alternative campaign setting, with it's own Icons and lore. Possibly moving away from the high fantasy paradigm.
That would be interesting, although I suspect Tweet + Heinsoo would leave that up to a third party. The Dragon Empire setting seems to be very much a part of the story they want to tell with 13th Age. The Bestiary and especially 13 True Ways only reinforce that.

To be honest, the setting is the one part of the system I'm not 100% sold on, although the Bestiary has gone a long ways towards bringing me around.
 

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Uskglass

First Post
To be honest, the setting is the one part of the system I'm not 100% sold on

I agree. I understand the reasons why they went for a rather standard fantasy setting in the core book, if order to make it very clear to recognize the Icons and their roles.
But at this point I'd love to see something a bit more peculiar, which can stretch and push the ruleset further. Perhaps something a bit more down to earth / low magic - I think the system would have enough latitude and flexibility to accommodate that as well.
 

Baumi

Adventurer
I would love a book that expands the existing classes with new Talents and Spells.

I love what they did with the Classes, but they usually don't have much choices.

A good Example is the Wizard, by the second level he knows 6 of the 8 available 1st Level spells .. thats not enough if you want to play a thematic Wizard (Ice-Mage, Enchanter, etc.) or if you want to avoid Daily-Spells. Or the Paladin who gets 5 Talents by level 8 from just 8 Available (Righteous Endeavor and Evil Bastards are exclusive.). The Barbarians has the same problem, he gets to choose 3 from 6 Talents at Heroic and at the other Tiers he gets one additional Talent from only 2 new high-level Talents....
 

Uskglass

First Post
I would love a book that expands the existing classes with new Talents and Spells.

Definitely. I'd also be keen to get options for building more complex versions of the 'simple' classes and possibly simpler version of the 'complex' ones as well.
 

ruleslawyer

Registered User
I have to type this without the benefit of having seen 13 True Ways.

Like a lot of others, I'm still trying to work out how to use Icons in a way that suits my games. MY FR campaigns normally involve a mixture of power groups and the machinations of deities - without those deities appearing, of course - and I am still not sure how to blend that in with the Icons system. A little bit more advice about including deities as Icons, in particular, would be helpful.

Just FYI, I do run an FR campaign and I decided to be super-lazy and keep the icons almost as is. What I did with the changes was to entirely remove the idea that the icons are actual NPCs in the setting and transform them into "tarot cards" of a sort. Thus, I did the following with the icons (my apologies this might be TL;DR):

On Icons in the Realms
No being in the Realms thinks of the icons as "the Emperor" or "the Priestess," et cetera; instead, the icons are embodied in the various entities whom they collectively represent. When your PC picks an icon affiliation, he or she is effectively choosing to have a particular aspect of the daily life of the Realms involved at center stage of his life's pageant; thus, a strong positive icon relationship with the Emperor could mean that the PC is a member or friend of the City Guard of Waterdeep or the Lords' Alliance in the North, or an undercover marshal of the Purple Dragons of Cormyr in the Stonelands. Likewise, an enemy of the Mother of Monsters could be a gnome driven forth from his homeland by deep-spawned tentacled horrors, or a dedicated dragonslayer trained by a monastic order in Helm's Hold. Use your backgrounds to flesh out the general nature of your icon relationships.

When describing an icon affiliation, feel free to specify the nature of the relationship and the particular temporal aspect of the icon you are discussing. For example, a ranger with an ambiguous relationship to the Prince of Shadows could be a fallen Harper, cast out of that secret society for shady dealings or refusing to carry out a particular mission. Likewise, a barbarian with a positive relationship with the Warlord could be an evil orcish marauder or simply an overly-fanatical member of the Griffon Uthgardt tribe with a (very large) axe to grind against civilized settlements. Feel free to weave a complex story around your icon relationships.

Archmage
The Archmage represents the forces of arcane magic in Faerun. Whether the Magister herself, the god Azuth, the mysterious Chosen, or any number of heroic, insane, or villainous wielders of Art across the Realms, the Archmage icon represents the forces of magic striving for dominance.

The Archmage is considered an ambiguous icon.

Adventurers and the Archmage
Association with this icon likely means that you are the servant or compatriot of a powerful wizard or brotherhood of mages, perhaps the Harpells of Longsaddle, the Many-Starred Cloak of Silverymoon, or the doughty archmage Khelben "Blackstaff" Arunsun. A conflicted relationship can mean any number of things: You could be the formerly cursed minion of a wizard, recovered from several years as a tree frog and ready for payback. Or you could be an apprentice wizard yourself, but not necessarily one who does well by your superiors. Finally, a negative relationship can mean anything from being a committed mage-killer to a stalwart foe of an evil wizardly brotherhood like the Arcane or the Red Wizards of Thay.

Dwarf King
The Dwarf King is the archetypal World Smith, the ruler of the dwarves' ancestral homeland beneath the mountains. The dwarves call on him with every breath they take in as they attempt to reclaim the dwarven Underhome lost to war against the dark elves and the creatures of the deeps. His name is upon the lips of every dwarf who finds himself manning the mountain walls that shield the Empire from the orcs and monsters of the north.

The Dwarf King is a heroic icon.

Adventurers and the Dwarf King
Obviously, a positive relationship with this icon means that you are either a dwarf with a strong clan affiliation or a Garak-Kul ("clan-friend") with a deep friendship to the Stout Folk. A conflicted relationship could be the mark of a clanless dwarf, abandoned when his people lost their hold; a mercenary stiffed by the dwarves he signed on to protect; or a human who grew up in a dwarf-heavy neighborhood of Mirabar. A negative relationship could be as simple as an adopted child of the duergar or a xenophobic sun elf, or more complicated like a rejected acolyte of Moradin or a dwarven knight with a human paramour.

Ebon Shard
The Ebon Shard represents the evils of the Abyss and the Nine Hells, forever trying to drag mortals into suffering and death. This icon can find play via the actual forces of the Abyss or the Nine Hells or the random acts of unchained demons, treasure-guarding bound fiends, or erstwhile sinister tempters like errant succubi.

Obviously, the Ebon Shard is a villainous icon.

Adventurers and the Ebon Shard
The obvious way to take this icon is to posit oneself as a fiend-slayer. That said, a conflicted relationship might signal a strain of fiendish origin in the PC, or perhaps a different view on the eternal struggle that believes in balance between good and evil rather than a triumph of virtue!

Elf Queen
The Elf Queen rules the Court of Stars, the one place where wood elves, dark elves, and high elves come together as peers and allies instead of as rivals or enemies. Honed by centuries of experience, the Queen’s innate magic at least equals the Archmage’s spells. The Queen is mystically connected to every elf, and so every elf is mystically connected to every other elf.

The Elf Queen icon represents the Seldarine, the pantheon that covers every aspect of elven life. However, in addition to the moon magic, quiet arrows, and ancient woodcraft of the elves, she is also present in the works of the Spider Queen and the foul magics of the dark elves.

Adventurers and the Elf Queen
Any adventurer (elven or otherwise) working toward the greater benefit of Tel'Quessir or their works across Faerun is likely to have a positive relationship to this icon. A conflicted relationship may simply signal a fanatical hatred of dark elves, or a more skeptical approach toward the measures taken by this race in their last gasps at presence in western Faerun. A negative relationship likely means an affilation with an evil Beast Cult or possibly a strong allegiance with a force like Hillsfar, Zhentil Keep, or Sembia that means to wipe out all traces of lingering elvish influence.

The Elf Queen is a heroic icon.

Emperor
The Emperor represents the forces of temporal law and order in the World. Consequently, this icon is highly flexible; its influenced may be glimpsed in the actions of the City Guard of Waterdeep, the Purple Dragons of Cormyr, or the humble workaday militia of a small Dale town.

The Emperor is a heroic icon.

Adventurers and the Emperor
Positive relationships indicate either actual membership (e.g. former armar of the City Watch) or friendly relationship with the relevant authorities. Conflicted relationships can be anything from back-story-intensive ("I was drummed out of the City Guard for mucking up an investigation, but my old captain still loves me") to neutral ("I live in Trades Ward as an honest blacksmith, but somehow the Watch gets involved once in a while!").

Great Gold Wyrm
The Great Gold Wyrm is the world’s protector and the inspiration for holy orders of paladins and independent heroes. Although the Gold Wyrm’s physical form seals the gap that prevents the Abyss from erupting into the world, his dreams and agents still move through the world, helping those who will fight and even die for what’s right.

The Great Gold Wyrm is a heroic icon.

Adventurers and the Great Gold Wyrm
Functionally, the Great Gold Wyrm serves as the inspiration for the most virtuous heroes. PCs with a positive relationship to this icon are likely followers of the Triad (Ilmater, Torm, and Tyr) or other deities or brotherhoods with a strong emphasis on crushing evil. Those with a conflicted relationship are probably rogues "trying to go straight," with varying degrees of success. Those with negative relationships are just bad guys.

High Druid
The High Druid represents the resurgent Wild, and the spiritual and magical aspects of spirits of nature and the elements that were chained by human civilization but are now working themselves free. She might be the great force that shakes Faerun to pieces, or she might be the hero who destroys the destroyers and points to a new way to live.

The High Druid is an ambiguous icon.

Adventurers and the High Druid
Many rangers and druids have a relationship, one way or the other, with the High Druid. The High Druid herself may or may not be sending agents into the field. Certainly various high- power druids who respect the High Druid are using resurgence in wild power to pursue their own conflicting agendas. Some of these powerful druids have hired adventurers, and others have responded by hiring adventurers to destroy their rivals’ hirelings.

Lich King
The Lich King is the lord of the undead, a fallen tyrant who intends to conquer the world and restore his ancient kingdom. He’s not entirely insane and sometimes understands that ruling a kingdom is not the same as destroying it. This icon stands for any number of undead would-be conquerors, from Myrkul and his legion to the armies of Acererak. Any conflict involving death priests, necromancers, or the undead triggers this icon.

The Lich King is a villainous icon.

Adventurers and the Lich King
Slayers of the undead are the most likely heritors of an icon relationship here, but certainly curious necromancers and black wizards may trigger conflicted or even positive relationships.

Priestess
The Priestess hears all the Gods of Light and speaks for those who please her. She is part oracle, part mystic, and part metaphysical engineer. The Priestess represents the benevolent influence of religion in Faerun, whether the peaceful Church of Eldath, the magnificent temples of Lathander, or the freewheeling gamblers of Tymora, Lady Luck.

The Priestess is a heroic icon.

Adventurers and the Priestess
Any bold adventurer has reason to court the gods' favor. A conflicted relationship with this icon probably indicates a character with some level of religious skepticism or possibly a background in a more sinister faith like that of the Dark Gods or the Gods of Fury.

Mother of Monsters
This is the icon of monstrosities and sinister powers, whether incursions from the Far Realm, deep-dwelling aberrations, or evil dragons. It can stand for foul sorcery, poison, insanity, or raw destruction. The involvement of the Mother signals monstrous incursions, wild magic, or the "wrath of Talos": storms, earthquakes, and floods.

The Mother is a villainous icon.

Adventurers and the Mother of Monsters
Adventurers almost always have a negative relationship with this icon. However, it is possible that a sorcerer or chaos mage, a student of monster lore, or an elemental druid might have a conflicted or even positive relationship with the Mother of Monsters.

Prince of Shadows
The Prince of Shadows is the archetypal trickster, whose exploits reshape the world nearly as often as they redistribute its wealth. He has squandered the riches of the dwarves, murdered the hopes of a dragon, and plundered the dreams of a god. His exploits have changed the world, but none can tell you his ultimate goals or motives. Your attitude toward the Prince of Shadows depends on how you feel about anarchy, and perhaps how you feel about anarchy happening to you.

The Prince of Shadows is an ambiguous icon.

Adventurers and the Prince of Shadows
Anyone who walks a shady path or profits from deception has a positive link to the Prince of Shadows, whether their goals are sinister (a thief or assassin) or noble (a spy of the Harpers or the Cormyrean crown). Given the number of secret societies and dark doings that populate Faerun, conflicted relationships with this icon are almost inevitable. An enemy of the Prince of Shadows has a lot to fear!

Tyrant
The Tyrant represents the forces of tyranny and "order at any cost." Whether the black-armored servants of Bane or the various lickspittles encouraging Tethyr's tinpot lords to seize authority, the servants of the Tyrant are ubiquitous.

The Tyrant is considered a villainous icon.

Adventurers and the Tyrant
It is certainly possible to have a positive relationship with this icon, although it is likely to signal a certain strain of fascism in many characters and create problems with PCs and NPCs connected to the High Druid and Elf Queen (among others). However, many paladins of Helm or Hoar and several militant PCs from the Eastern lands might find themselves drawn to the Tyrant icon.

Warlord
The symbol of all the forces arrayed against the relatively frail tendrils that civilization has sprouted, this icon represents savagery, rapine, berserk rage, and wandering at the edges of civilization. The warlord appeals to Uthgardt tribesmen and orcish clan worshipers alike.

Despite some of its harsher implications, this icon is generally ambiguous.

Adventurers and the Warlord
A barbarian clan member, a desert nomad, or a savage acolyte of Malar may all have affinity with the Warlord. A town guardsman of Neverwinter, a peace-loving druid of Eldath, or a doughty orcslayer may all be the icon's enemies.
 

ruleslawyer

Registered User
Clearly you can tweak this more. Some thoughts that I had were to change the Archmage icon to a more generic "the Weave" or a Realmsier "Lady of Mysteries"; change the Priestess to a more generic "Sanctar"; and possibly add a "Master of Coin" icon (I decided against this in my own game simply because I think that the Emperor, Dwarf King, and Prince of Shadows icons get at it from their own ends, BUT trade is a very important part of the Realms).
 

ruleslawyer, I definitely approve of what you've done with the Icons. While I myself have tied the Icons to 13 powerful NPCs in my game, I'm finding more and more that it's better to make each Icon a cluster of thematically related characters and factions.

And drawing inspiration from the Malazan Book of the Fallen and other influences, many of the times that I call for a roll of the Icon Dice for story-guide results, I narrate it with a drawing of "cards from the Deck of Dragons" to make things more portentous and in theme with the fantasy world. Sometimes the players are forewarned of vague tidings by the cards, sometimes not.

And in the case of the one guy who has three dice for the Roadsingers (my Prince of Shadows equivalent), it's always funny when he draws three copies of the card at the fortune teller's, only to be told "but...but...that's impossible! There's only one copy in the deck!"
 

Dungeoneer

First Post
FYI, there is a YouTube video of the 13th Age GM Roundtable at GenCon and they talk a lot about HOW to use icons in your games. The answer Rob Heinsoo & Co. currently seem to be going with is, There is no wrong way! There are a lot of interesting suggestions from people, including:


  • Limiting the # of icons you use
  • Putting icon 'cards' in front of players who have rolled a 5 or 6 to remind you and them that they have an icon roll available.
  • Asking players how they want to use icon rolls.
  • Pre-defining icon-based 'events' that rolls can trigger.
  • World event 'thresholds' - i.e., the third time someone rolls a 6 with the Archmage, a major Archmage-related event happens.

Very interesting roundtable, got my creative juices flowing.
 


Juris

First Post
I'd like to see more themed Bestiaries (Planar encounters, Classic Bad Guys like pirates and bandits, etc)

And support for the core classes (Perhaps akin to the 'Complete' books)
 

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