D&D 4E 1st level 4E characters are already Heroes

[mmadsen]

C'mon. Now you're just grasping at straws.

No, I'm hardly grasping at straws; I'm making the point that a 50-percent chance of failure does not imply "sucking", especially in combat.

What does imply "sucking" is a +1 bonus, like a first-level Fighter's BAB, which implies that a warrior who has trained from birth won't hit his target much more than the next guy. That implies that a first-level Fighter is not a warrior who has trained from birth, but rather a guy who has just learned the basics of fighting.

 

[hong]

A D&D attack roll does not, and has never represented a single swing of a weapon.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

No, I'm hardly grasping at straws; I'm making the point that a 50-percent chance of failure does not imply "sucking", especially in combat.

If you're going to make comparisons, compare apples to apples. Professional boxers don't operate under the d20 system.

 

[Kesh]

Y'know, I just read through this whole thread... and the only thing it accomplished is padding out my ignore list. And I barely use my ignore list on EN World.

There's a lot of snark, insults, "One true way-ism" and general put-downs of other people here. It might be good for folks to step back a bit.

 

[drothgery]

A D&D attack roll does not, and has never represented a single swing of a weapon.

Though it has always represented a single shot from a missile weapon, unless you want to say that arrows, sling bullets, and throwing daggers are abstract.

 

[hong]

Though it has always represented a single shot from a missile weapon, unless you want to say that arrows, sling bullets, and throwing daggers are abstract.

See! Another advantage of not tracking ammunition!

 

[Grog]

What does imply "sucking" is a +1 bonus, like a first-level Fighter's BAB, which implies that a warrior who has trained from birth won't hit his target much more than the next guy. That implies that a first-level Fighter is not a warrior who has trained from birth, but rather a guy who has just learned the basics of fighting.

And yet, he's proficient in the use of about 40 different weapons, most of which are at least moderately difficult to learn to use effectively. Therefore, he's not a guy who has just learned the basics of fighting. Q.E.D.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

Sun Knight, would you describe the Star Wars Saga sessions you've played and perhaps define what you thought was mindlessly easy (your words) about the game?

 

[mmadsen]

And yet, he's proficient in the use of about 40 different weapons, most of which are at least moderately difficult to learn to use effectively. Therefore, he's not a guy who has just learned the basics of fighting. Q.E.D.

Although I'm largely on your side on this point, almost all the supposed "martial" weapons in D&D should be "simple" weapons, because most weapons don't require extensive specialized training over and above learning how to fight. Swords are notably easy to use, for instance, and are better balanced than clubs or maces; there's no reason they should require a special ability to use.

Besides, I consider the Fighter's ability to use almost any weapon more a simplification than an assertion that every Fighter has trained extensively with every weapon.

 

[danzig138]

a lot of people have told them they didnt like this.

Or, could be squeaky wheel, grease, all that.

I look forward to a lot of people coming to terms with the idea that they aren't the market for 4E anymore, like me. I really would prefer it not embrace this playstyle that so many here endorse, the one that is fun, since we've been repeatedly told what isn't fun as if from the mountain. But of it does, eh. It won't impact my gaming, and hopefully people will have fun with it.

But really, both the "for" and "against" people need to step off with the attitudes. Some of us are interested in reading these threads, and would prefer to do so without wading through mounds of crappy attitudes.

I don't want another multiple-day ban because I lack impulse control and there's too much provocation here.

Take it to CM.