D&D 4E 1st level 4E characters are already Heroes

[Destil]

In the saturday 4E seminar James pointed out that in the new edition, even first level D&D characters are Heroes. Right out the gate, they are head and shoulders above the local populace. This is no longer a game where your first level character can be dropped by a single hit from a peasant's club.

From a practical standpoint, I'm guessing this means that 1st level 4E characters are comparable to 2nd or 3rd level 3E characters. 1st level 4E characters aren't wimps. They're heroes and adventurers.

This is a great idea. It solves a couple "metagame" issues, like how 1st level 3e characters start the game in their late teens or early 20's, and before their next birthday are hewing armies and creating pocket dimensions. Or how 1st level characters aren't supposed to know that a troll regenerates or a skeleton needs smashing weapons, but of course the players do, and so everyone sorta-but-not-really pretends to be ignorant. That's not fun.

This was the case in earlier editions, too.

Most 3E NPCs have NPC classes, a wizard is a hero next to a magewright. (Eberron, in fact, illustrated this idea very well with it's low level NPCs in general and favoritism for NPC classes on NPCs).

In 2E most NPCs were level 0s with 4-6 HP and no other stats of note.

Also, since this borders on something I see mentioned a lot (Saga starting HP), I wanted to point out for thoes that didn't notice: Saga does not quite start out your PCs with tripple HP. In Saga 0 HP is dead. So it's more like starting out with double HP and the die hard feat... You can remain active over more damage, but there's no buffer between disabled and dead (contiton track covers that).

 

[Zaruthustran]

Agamon, your Pool of Radiance avatar is Win.

 

[Roger]

PS: Here's to hoping that 4E will have some sort of Traveller-style character background generator, wherein your 1st level warlord's initial training, first few commands, and current situation is laid out.

And also you could die.

(No, seriously -- that part of Traveller character generation was entirely awesome.)

On a different serious note, Unearthed Arcana has a character background generation system sort of like this.



Cheers,
Roger

 

[Zaruthustran]

Most 3E NPCs have NPC classes,

I'm not 100% sure, but I think I recall James saying that NPC classes are gone.

Good riddance, say I. If you as a DM want a master blacksmith, just make a master blacksmith. Give him a decent skill mod and be done with it. No need to fiddle with each and every level.

In fact, I hope they just make a generic "NPC" entry in the DMG. Give it three competence levels: apprentice, journeyman, master. Set fixed skill mods for whatever it is that the NPC does. Set a hit point and attack bonus range. Done.

After all, does it really matter if the mediocre blacksmith is precisely 4th level, or 5th, or 6th? Not really. It only matters that he's better than an apprentice and worse than a master.

Which makes me recall one more anecdote from the seminar: in 4E, monsters just *are*. The designers don't try to shoehorn monsters into the rules for player characters. A 6 HD monster doesn't necessarily have three feats and one stat bump. There's just no good reason for PC rules to apply, or for monsters to be able to be "reverse engineered" into PC races. Monsters have a job to do, and they're built in such a way to do that job--regardless of how that build fits into PC creation and advancement rules. I imagine NPCs will be approached in the same way.

-z

 

[Zaruthustran]

And also you could die.

(No, seriously -- that part of Traveller character generation was entirely awesome.)

Haha--my group always used to laugh at how Traveller was a system where your character could die even before the start of the game.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Looking forward to this aspect.

Seeing mage's worry about housecats is silly.

Another crip sheet nabbed from Iron Heroes.

 

[The Human Target]

I'm glad it seems I might not have to skip the first level or two anymore hopefully.



That said, Warlord is still a terrible class name.

 

[Baron Opal]

Shades of 1e with everyone else being 0th level fighters, perhaps?

I wouldn't mind a "nonheroic" class like in SWSE. If such exists, however, I can't imagine that I would have it progress more than 5 levels. Even in 3e, the most developed I ever had an NPC class was 9th level commoner; he was a John Chisum clone.

 

[satori01]

Power bloat built right in from the beginning! What a wonderful idea! Next they'll tell us how PCs get MEGADAMAGE and monsters just have regular damage.

This is not meant to be rude, but have you DM'd a self created adventure for 1st level characters...... if not as a longtime DM, I would say it is probably one of the most difficult levels to design for, Especially if your group is unconventional, with either more people or a strange mix of classes.

I had a low opinion of the Sunless Citadel, when 3.0 came out and I experienced it as a player.
Immediately after we finished the module in a weekend and I took the reins over as DM, I appreciated it's design of challenging players w/ interesting scenarios, but not ensuring a TPC.
The Hit Point gain of even 2nd level gives enough room to play with that you should not have random catastrophic dice factors. A 1st level Orc warrior armed with the default great axe can potentially do 45 points of damage on a critical hit. Realistically anything over 16 points of damage will probably do the trick.

A SWSE style where starting characters have more hit points is not really a bad way to go.

 

[Banshee16]

This is not meant to be rude, but have you DM'd a self created adventure for 1st level characters...... if not as a longtime DM, I would say it is probably one of the most difficult levels to design for, Especially if your group is unconventional, with either more people or a strange mix of classes.

I had a low opinion of the Sunless Citadel, when 3.0 came out and I experienced it as a player.
Immediately after we finished the module in a weekend and I took the reins over as DM, I appreciated it's design of challenging players w/ interesting scenarios, but not ensuring a TPC.
The Hit Point gain of even 2nd level gives enough room to play with that you should not have random catastrophic dice factors. A 1st level Orc warrior armed with the default great axe can potentially do 45 points of damage on a critical hit. Realistically anything over 16 points of damage will probably do the trick.

A SWSE style where starting characters have more hit points is not really a bad way to go.

Is there something wrong with the idea that characters can.....die.....in an adventure game? I mean, it's being brought up like there should be no risk. I don't think that's much fun, myself.

Banshee