D&D 4E 1st level 4E characters are already Heroes

[marune]

This is great. We almost always start off at level 3 anyway....

D&D is supposed to be heroic fantasy. If you want grim and gritty, go elsewhere, this ain't it.

Yeah, problem is that some lives in the illusion that D&D is/(should be) a one-size-fit-all RPG.

 

[BadMojo]

To me, if you don't want the fragility of 1st level, then why not start at a higher level? Start at 2nd, start at 3rd, and go from there. Why take away that frail gritty 1st level for the groups that really like that kind of thing?

I'm sure there will still be a state of "fragility", but not as extreme as it is right now. I don't care for 1st level much either and my main issue is not only are characters fragile, they can be plain old incompetent.

IMO, It's one thing to have that sense of danger at 1st level (although it should feel that way at all levels, I think) but very often a party of 1st level adventurers is like the Three Stooges with a bit of Mr. Bean thrown in for good measure.

While slipping and falling 15 or 20 feet while exploring a cavern or falling in water wearing armor would be dangerous in real life, both seem too mundane and just, well, not heroic.

I definitely don't want to see 1st level characters doing things that would surprise a GM in Exalted, but I'd prefer slightly stronger 1st level PCs and find a mechanic that says "start your characters at level 3" to be really clunky (I think Dragonstar did this due to high damage from energy weapons).

 

[Nifft]

This is great. We almost always start off at level 3 anyway....

Same here.

I like getting +2 levels of play.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Corinth]

They'll copy SWSE and just throw in a two Hit Die kicker. That will be enough.

 

[Elk_Weaver]

PS: Here's to hoping that 4E will have some sort of Traveller-style character background generator, wherein your 1st level warlord's initial training, first few commands, and current situation is laid out.

I find your P.S. a little unsettling. In my humble and not so important opinion, I find it almost insulting if character will not take the time to write out his or her OWN history. To have a random history generater for a PC seems to cheapin the whole experiance and shows a lack of creativity. Now, with that in mind, I also would like to point out that it would be a great tool for a DM if she needed or wanted to write up a history for say an entire village. It would cut down on a tedious workload and let the DM/GM concentrate on more important matters.

Just my two cents on the random history generater

 

[Brother MacLaren]

1st-level PCs in 3.5 were ALREADY pretty tough compared to the warriors and commoners around them. Max HP, elite ability score array, better equipment, and better classes. These make a HUGE difference. A 1st-level fighter with 12 hp can withstand two ordinary hits from a longsword, or three shortbow arrows, and keep fighting. He can take any non-critical hit from a raging orc barbarian's greataxe (1d12+9 or so) and still live.

If that's still not enough, then what I would do would be to weaken the commoner back to the 1-hp "Normal Man" in the Basic/Expert set that I started on. Because if you give the 1st-level fighter 30+ hp as in Saga Edition, what do you give your basic ogre?

 

[Psion]

In the saturday 4E seminar James pointed out that in the new edition, even first level D&D characters are Heroes. Right out the gate, they are head and shoulders above the local populace.

How Spycraft of them.

 

[Piratecat]

I am told (based on the Q&A seminar) that levels run from 1-30, but they occupy the 3e power curve of lvls 4-14. They just have greater granularity.

 

[mmadsen]

I am told (based on the Q&A seminar) that levels run from 1-30, but they occupy the 3e power curve of lvls 4-14. They just have greater granularity.

I think that was a laudable design goal, keeping play in the "sweet spot" of levels four through 14, but why truncate the system at the bottom, when you could simply start player characters at fourth level?

Is there no such thing as a first-level-equivalent fighter in the game world anymore?

 

[DonTadow]

Just as long as "heroes" is not incorporated in the title of the class. One of a range of disapointments for D20 Modern.

And the pcs can start thinking they are heroes...a few beatdowns...maybe by peasents and housecats...should solve that.

Starting out stronger than an npc does not make anything less dangerious or scary at 1st level if the danger scales. I like the idea. Makes the threat all the more serious for a bunch of wet behind the ears newbies.