D&D 4E 1st level 4E characters are already Heroes

[Visceris]

As has been pointed out, that 1st level fighter is proficient in the use of something like 40 different weapons, from daggers to glaives to longbows. He's clearly not some kid just out of basic - he has very extensive training.

The problem is, the rest of his stats don't reflect that.

No. He knows the basics of fighting with weapons, the basics of using and maintaining armor, and knows the basics how to roll with a hit. He is not specialized in a weapon. He does not have the high end armor. He does not trained in special manuevers.

HE IS A 1ST LEVEL N00B! Just the freakin' basics about fighting.

 

[Grog]

No. He knows the basics of fighting with weapons, the basics of using and maintaining armor, and knows the basics how to roll with a hit. He is not specialized in a weapon. He does not have the high end armor. He does not trained in special manuevers.

HE IS A 1ST LEVEL N00B! Just the freakin' basics about fighting.

And yet, he's proficient in the use of about 40 different weapons, each of which requires a different fighting style and its own set of skills and tricks to use (even shortswords and longswords, though they may seem superficially similar, use completely different fighting styles). That's a level of training that's way beyond "just the basics about fighting."

 

[Visceris]

And yet, he's proficient in the use of about 40 different weapons, each of which requires a different fighting style and its own set of skills and tricks to use (even shortswords and longswords, though they may seem superficially similar, use completely different fighting styles). That's a level of training that's way beyond "just the basics about fighting."

That does not mean he has any practical experience in using them. He is still 1st level.

 

[Grog]

That does not mean he has any practical experience in using them. He is still 1st level.

I didn't say he had practical experience in using them, I said he's been trained in their use. Hence the fact that he can use them without the nonproficiency penalty.

Do you have any idea of the amount of training it would take to make someone able to competently use 40 weapons, most of which are very different in their use? It's way beyond the level of training a farmboy would get from a passing veteran. It's way beyond the level of training most medieval soldiers would get, for that matter.

Someone who can use 40 different weapons proficiently has had extensive combat training. Period.

 

[Visceris]

And that is why the game has the effective starting ages, bonus feats, and the hiogher starting hit points compared to other classes that shows that training, however he still has no practical experience in using them in real battle.

He is 1st level. He is a n00b. He is no Hero.

 

[Grog]

And that is why the game has the effective starting ages, bonus feats, and the hiogher starting hit points compared to other classes that shows that training, however he still has no practical experience in using them in real battle.

But that's the point. For all his extensive training, he only has a 5% better chance to hit an enemy than a commoner with a dagger. That's just silly. It's true that there's no substitute for combat experience, but training makes a big difference - hence the fact that it's a standard staple of pretty much every military and police force in the world.

He is 1st level. He is a n00b. He is no Hero.

"Hero" is a subjective term.

 

[Visceris]

But that's the point. For all his extensive training, he only has a 5% better chance to hit an enemy than a commoner with a dagger. That's just silly. It's true that there's no substitute for combat experience, but training makes a big difference - hence the fact that it's a standard staple of pretty much every military and police force in the world.

Yet that 1st level fighter can use full Plate Mail effectively while the commoner cannot.

 

[hong]

Yet that 1st level fighter can use full Plate Mail effectively while the commoner cannot.

Why... he might even be a HERO!

 

[Visceris]

Why... he might even be a HERO!

Nope. Because he was trained in Heavy Armor Proficiency.

 

[hong]

Nope. Because he was trained in Heavy Armor Proficiency.

And he got that training in the course of becoming a hero.