D&D 5E 2/18/13 L&L column

[YRUSirius]

Yeah, just strengthen the healer's kit. Every other game has some kind of mundane healing potion or healing herb everyone can use. Why not D&D?

-YRUSirius

 

[nightwalker450]

Cleric goes unconscious, party needs to wait for 2d6 hours....

 

[Balesir]

Healer's Kit: This satchel includes various bandages, poultices, anesthetics and other useful materials for cleaning and treating various minor wounds. The Healer's Kit has enough material for 10 uses before needing to be restocked. Each use of the kit requires 10 minutes of uninterrupted time (if they call that a "turn" or a "short rest" or whatever, I do not care). Each use of the kit will heal 5 HP. Any class can purchase/use a Healer's Kit.

Sorry, that sounds like the CLW wand writ large (and usable by anyone). Or, put another way, it's Healing Surges that you can buy with money. Rack up 3-4 healing kits per party member and you're good to rumble...

 

[Bedrockgames]

This is kind of the point... NWPs aren't really optional in 2e as a whole because every supplement assumed their use. Healing goes even deeper than this.

-O

actually that isn't fully the case and one of things that surprised me. When I went back and ran Ravenloft again using the original books, they didn't have NWPs in many of the books (in fact, would have to check, but I believe the whole npc section of the boxed sets didn't have them). And the modules didn't feature them the way current ones feature skills.

But to address your central point, they were still optional even if they had wide representation through the rules. That was the beauty of the 2E design, you pretty much saw the game you wanted. For example I used NWPs religiously but was barely aware of the weapon type rules. I knew of them but ignored them. They reappeared elsewhere too but just looked like white noise to me. For people who didn't use NWPs they just came off as white noise.

 

[MoonSong]

Many people, me included, would argue that healing was never special to begin with. And if anything, 3e's Wand of Cure Light Wounds problem killed any lingering specialness long before 4e came along.

The wand of cure light wounds is kind of a strawman, a theorical possibility. Ok it is very possible it showed up on some games and some groups, but if at character creation you just make a healbot (like the cleric, bard, favored soul or even better the healer) and make it known, those won't show up if you don't speciffically craft them/buy them and even then it is you as the party healer who brought those into play (unless the DM or party rogue just wants to act mean to you, but that is a table issue).

Previous editions had a healer's sweet spot at lower-mid levels, in 4e that sweet spot isn't really there (of course I could be wrong, haven't had the chance to play a paragon tier cleric yet).

I'm just speaking out of my own experience, never before 4e I was on a position where my healing was rejected, or I found myself dreadding being healed. It is funny previously having more than one character capable of healing was a good way to share the burden and ultimately extend the adventuring day, whereas in 4e coexisting leaders have to "compete" for surges or otherwise end up depleting the resource, and I learnt that the hard way, One would think that having three leaders on the party could be good (yay for extra free attacks), but when they end up eating all but two of your surges (which you ahd been hoarding all day long) on a single fight which also leads to your untimely death, something obviously is wrong. Never before I thought there was a thing such a too much healing, now I know better. It was kind of sad that the kind of character I enjoy the most is very much unwelcomed on 4e, beacause it just breaks the game.

 

[steeldragons]

Sorry, that sounds like the CLW wand writ large (and usable by anyone). Or, put another way, it's Healing Surges that you can buy with money. Rack up 3-4 healing kits per party member and you're good to rumble...

Yes. It is. Is that not the point? The complaints seem to be "They're giving us no choice/options in a Basic game except to use a cleric!"

Basic won't use healing surges.
Basic [and I believe none of 5e] won't use CLW wands or other magical items as easily acquired healing.

Basic will, and granted I am assuming, have an equipment list. So buy some Healer Kits. As much healing as you can buy and carry with absolutely no need for a cleric...well, to handle your HP wounds anyway...at least until your kit run-eth dry. If the DM is going to have 10 kits per PC available at the local store, then the DM is perfectly capable of making sure they have a need for them.

 

[Sage Genesis]

The wand of cure light wounds is kind of a strawman, a theorical possibility. Ok it is very possible it showed up on some games and some groups, but if at character creation you just make a healbot (like the cleric, bard, favored soul or even better the healer) and make it known, those won't show up if you don't speciffically craft them/buy them and even then it is you as the party healer who brought those into play (unless the DM or party rogue just wants to act mean to you, but that is a table issue).

Previous editions had a healer's sweet spot at lower-mid levels, in 4e that sweet spot isn't really there (of course I could be wrong, haven't had the chance to play a paragon tier cleric yet).

I'm just speaking out of my own experience, never before 4e I was on a position where my healing was rejected, or I found myself dreadding being healed. It is funny previously having more than one character capable of healing was a good way to share the burden and ultimately extend the adventuring day, whereas in 4e coexisting leaders have to "compete" for surges or otherwise end up depleting the resource, and I learnt that the hard way, One would think that having three leaders on the party could be good (yay for extra free attacks), but when they end up eating all but two of your surges (which you ahd been hoarding all day long) on a single fight which also leads to your untimely death, something obviously is wrong. Never before I thought there was a thing such a too much healing, now I know better. It was kind of sad that the kind of character I enjoy the most is very much unwelcomed on 4e, beacause it just breaks the game.

First of all, I was talking about whether or not healing felt special. The fact (?) that most groups didn't use CLW wands is besides the point: healing has never been special at all, and the CLW wand is just icing on the cake of blandness.

As for the rest of your quote... I have no idea what you're even talking about. Why would you dread being healed? If your friend slings a heal your way, doesn't that imply you're hurt? And if you're hurt, don't you want to get better? Hoarding surges won't do you any good if you're dead. And also, you can refuse to take advantage of a beneficial spell being aimed at you. Nobody can heal you against your wishes. Why are these healers you're talking about using up all your surges in a single fight? Why are your healers "competing" for the surges, when they don't need to spend any actions or powers on somebody who's already been healed by their colleague just before their turn came up?

I'm sorry to say this, but I've played 4e a lot, including running 3-day marathon sessions every year... but are you quite sure you guys weren't misunderstanding something? Because what you describe sounds nothing like 4e.

 

[Sadrik]

With this sort of thing, we don't assume that the default rule is the "right" or "correct" choice. With the core game, our aim is to err on the side of simplicity and streamlined, easy to learn rules.

This is the correct course of action. Also, I never did like all of the dice pools and rolling anyway. Conceptually I understood where they were coming from, but practically at the game table it did not work well enough for me to enjoy the game mechanic. I think there should be several options on damage and death, and healing and recovery and offering several rules which will allow the DM and players to determine their favored play style. Some people want the cleric to be important and some people don't. Simplifying is good, tossing the hit dice to optional does just that. Add complexity via modules.

 

[mlund]

Actually, I think this will work just fine - other than the fact that the idea that there is no non-magical healing is a complete lie. They aren't going to publish a game that doesn't reset Hit Points by day / session / adventurer or some metric.

That said, if the only mid-stream "healing" (by this I mean hit point restoration) is that of divine magic it really isn't a huge deal. Look at the Cleric's spell-casting progression for a minute. He just can't create so many extra HPs that it is truly more necessary than another Fighter or Wizard joining the party and adding more damage mitigation through superior firepower and possibly damage cancellation.

That's perfectly fine for a basic game.

It probably works fine for a standard game too (though I'd prefer to see Hit Dice at that level). I look forward to seeing a Warlord who grants Temporary Hit Points and uses a Reaction to reduce damage at range.

The dials of non-magical healing work just fine in Advanced 5E. In the end they only factor into game balance as a pacing mechanic anyway.

- Marty Lund

 

[DEFCON 1]

Basic is not what we're used to thinking of as "Core". Please remember that. Always.

And just because they state that they're going in one specific direction for a Basic rule DOES NOT MEAN they aren't designing/playtesting/including alternate rules or options for the Standard game. Please remember that too.

Remember: The Basic game will get played by probably less than 5% of us. That's it. The other 95% will include at least one or more "optional rules" in their game-- starting with a non "Core Four" race or class... through Backgrounds... through feats... through magic items... through minis and grids... through rituals... through 3D movement... through magic item creation... all the way to practically the complete recreation of the 3E or 4E game.

And that includes ways of healing PCs other than the one or two Cure Light Wounds or Cure Moderate Wounds spells the Basic Cleric might cast during an adventuring day.

Because let's not forget... those players RIGHT NOW who are playing current BECMI or AD&D games... they don't seem to have a problem with "Clerics as healers". That's a base element of those games, and since these players have CHOSEN to play those games... they apparently don't mind it. And those players who have Cleric PCs in those games seem to be dealing with the issue without any problems.

And so too will they deal with it if/when those games/campaigns turn into 5E when the time comes.

The Basic game is just that. Basic. Simple. Baseline. Without options or choices. And when the time comes to decide what the healing model for that game is... what's the best option? For a game that only 5% of the D&D population will actually play (don't forget). And selecting the option that is exactly the same as the option that's been available since the very beginning of the game's existence is not such a bad choice. Especially considering we still have players who are playing and enjoying the very games this decision was based on.