+2 to cha and no counter balance stat: LA +0

[Moon-Lancer]

Lets say I make a race with a +2 to cha without a negative stat to go along with it. cha is considered to be the weakest stat isn't it? at least i thought i read that someplace on wizards site.

What else could the race get without being to strong?

I know the lesser tifeling gets a +2 to cha and nothing else, but I think in that case it might be too strong. Any suggestions or comments?

 

[Rystil Arden]

What else should the race get to be balanced? Significant penalties to other things. Particularly those that will be painful for a Sorcerer.

Also, if this is a new race, shouldn't this be House Rules?

 

[pawsplay]

If they have absolutely no other abilities, it might be okay.

 

[hong]

Heh. The half-orc gets +2 Str and -2 Cha and Int, because Str is supposed to be the best stat. So maybe you could give this guy +2 Cha and Int, and -2 Str.

 

[DreadArchon]

I perceive Half-Elves and Half-Orcs as weak, so I shifted them to having +2 to one stat (Cha for Half-Elves, Str for Half-Orcs) and no negatives at all. (I then removed the Diplomacy and Gather Info checks from Half-Elves.) I don't know how well it works in practice because my players still don't take them, but I think it looks reasonably balanced on paper.

To answer your more specific question, I'd point out that Cha isn't exactly a weak stat for Sorcerers and Bards, and it's also darn handy for Paladins, Clerics, Dragon Shamans, and people who dip Marshal (which usually involves the other five classes I just mentioned). They'll all be going for Cha anyway, so yay for free bonuses!

 

[Moon-Lancer]

Also, if this is a new race, shouldn't this be House Rules?

oops


about the +2 to charisma thing, isn't their a Aasimar someplace that gets a +2 to charisma and no negative? when i said tifling above, i ment Aasimar.

 

[Perun]

Heh. The half-orc gets +2 Str and -2 Cha and Int, because Str is supposed to be the best stat. So maybe you could give this guy +2 Cha and Int, and -2 Str.

A minor nit-pick, it's both Str and Dex bonus that require a penalty to either a single physical ability score or to two mental ability scores (DMG, p. 173).

Regards.

 

[Perun]

oops


about the +2 to charisma thing, isn't their a Aasimar someplace that gets a +2 to charisma and no negative? when i said tifling above, i ment Aasimar.

Aasimar gets +2 Wis, +2 Cha, and a bunch of othe rminor abilities, but is LA +1. A variant in Player's Guide to Faerûn (a "lesser" aasimar) removes the LA by doing a simple Type change, but, personally, I wouldn't call it balanced and wouldn't allow it IMC.

 

[Rystil Arden]

oops


about the +2 to charisma thing, isn't their a Aasimar someplace that gets a +2 to charisma and no negative? when i said tifling above, i ment Aasimar.

I'd be surprised if it's official, it's a pretty unfair idea. +2 racial to Charisma is pretty clearly superior to the human feat and skill points. (For comparison, a stat raise of 1 that stacks with everything else (like a racial bonus) is an epic feat--so that's 2). And human is usually one of the most popular / strongest races for Sorcerer that I've seen (yes Dwarves are overpowered in general, but not for Sorcerer!). Compare to half-elves and you just have to laugh.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Aasimar gets +2 Wis, +2 Cha, and a bunch of othe rminor abilities, but is LA +1. A variant in Player's Guide to Faerûn (a "lesser" aasimar) removes the LA by doing a simple Type change, but, personally, I wouldn't call it balanced and wouldn't allow it IMC.

+2 to two stats, no penalties to stats, spell-likes, energy resists, and all for LA +0? Wow, I already knew PGtF was one of the most terribly-balanced books WotC has ever put out in all of 3.5, and I didn't even know they did that!