2014: The End of Character Classes?

[GMMichael]

D&D has reached 40 years. In my perspective, a long and excellent tradition! How far the dorky sibling of the table top war sim has come!

It's time to retire some ideas held by that tradition. On my chopping block: the character class. Many RPGs chose to go classless many years ago. The Elder Scrolls, arguably setting a new standard for eRPGs, has been letting players design their own classes for years. O.L.D., Numenera, Fate Core, Modos RPG...eschewing classes.

You don't need a class to describe your character. In some cases, if your character describes himself using his class name, he'll actually get weird looks ("you're a Fighter? Well, I heard the kid down the street is looking for a fight!") Classes have been mucking up the works for years now, pigeon-holing characters and requiring lengthy multi-classing rules.

It looks like D&D Next is bravely pushing forward with more classes. I understand 13th Age is doing so too, but with much more variety (or, just under-playtesting each class?) Did these franchises miss the memo?

What's your take? Are you willing to wave goodbye to classes?

 

[Hand of Evil]

They may say they are getting rid of classes but odds are they are just re-packaging it.

Classes are just another name for professions. Each profession has a set of skills. Your level of knowledge in the skill, sets your salary. Even if you are a Jack-of-all-trades you are still within a class.

 

[Argyle King]

I'm a GURPS player, so going classless is nothing new to me. Even if I'm doing a Dungeon Fantasy game with templates (which more or less mimic the idea of class in that product line,) I still feel like I have more freedom to define my character than I'm given with D&D style classes.

I think Star Wars: Edge of The Empire found a pretty good middle ground. It has careers, but then gives the player freedom to advance into different specialties and then also decide which abilities to pursue. Likewise, it's possible to pick up things from outside of your career, but it takes more of an investment to do so.



I don't think D&D would work very well without classes though. I think it would be possible to build D&D without classes. However, I feel that doing so would require changing a lot of the fundamental building blocks which are tied to the brand name. I also believe that before a classless system would work in D&D that many of the options found in D&D would need to be better balanced against each other to create honest choice, and the game would need to address making breadth of play and multiple pillars of play work rather than what (I feel) has traditionally been a very linear and vertical (in that the numbers just keep stacking) method of advancement.

I don't think classes are a concept that will die. However, I do think we will see more games offer different ways of defining characters. I also think we're starting to see more publishers and designers who feel comfortable with doing things differently than what the folks over at WoTC are doing. I feel that's a good thing.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

While I like games without classes- HERO is my #1 system, after all- to me, D&D without classes is like Reese's Peanut Butter Cups without peanut butter.

 

[Hyper-Man]

I'm a GURPS player, so going classless is nothing new to me. Even if I'm doing a Dungeon Fantasy game with templates (which more or less mimic the idea of class in that product line,) I still feel like I have more freedom to define my character than I'm given with D&D style classes.

I think Star Wars: Edge of The Empire found a pretty good middle ground. It has careers, but then gives the player freedom to advance into different specialties and then also decide which abilities to pursue. Likewise, it's possible to pick up things from outside of your career, but it takes more of an investment to do so.



I don't think D&D would work very well without classes though. I think it would be possible to build D&D without classes. However, I feel that doing so would require changing a lot of the fundamental building blocks which are tied to the brand name. I also believe that before a classless system would work in D&D that many of the options found in D&D would need to be better balanced against each other to create honest choice, and the game would need to address making breadth of play and multiple pillars of play work rather than what (I feel) has traditionally been a very linear and vertical (in that the numbers just keep stacking) method of advancement.

I don't think classes are a concept that will die. However, I do think we will see more games offer different ways of defining characters. I also think we're starting to see more publishers and designers who feel comfortable with doing things differently than what the folks over at WoTC are doing. I feel that's a good thing.

I'm a HERO System player and feel much the same. Classes aren't always necessary but some type of party "schtick" preservation usually is. It's what allows different players to have their opportunity to "shine" during an adventure. If everyone is good at the same things that's really hard to do.

 

[Jan van Leyden]

What's your take? Are you willing to wave goodbye to classes?

No. D&D has always been the game for simple concepts and it should continue to be so. I want D&D to be the game where the description "Dwarven fighter with chainmail and axe" transports the message to the whole community.

Why should D&D try to emulate what other games are successfully doing?

 

[Yora]

Character classes have one major advantage, which is ease and speed of character creation and advancement. In theory. 3rd Edition/Pathfinder did went a bit overboard with customization and special class features, making that advantage pretty much moot.
(And I'm never quite sure what the point of 4th Edition was meant to be.)

 

[delericho]

It's time to retire some ideas held by that tradition.

Why? No, seriously - why is "it time"? These ideas are nothing more than tools to do a particular job. As, as with all tools, they should both be under continuous scrutiny to see if there's a better way, but they also do not have any built-in expiration date. Saying "it's time to retire" some game mechanic just because it's old is like saying we should retire the wheel because it's positively ancient! The reason we keep the wheel around is not simply a matter of nostalgia - it's because it continues to perform a useful function. If character classes (or hit points, or XP, or the bloodied condition, or weapon powers, or...) continue to perform a useful function they should continue to be used, whether they're an hour old, a year old, forty years old, 40,000 years old, or longer.

(And, conversely, if it does not serve a purpose then it absolutely should be retired, again regardless of age. What I reject is not "let's get rid of classes"; it's "let's get rid of classes because they magically became useless at 40 years of age.")

On my chopping block: the character class. Many RPGs chose to go classless many years ago. The Elder Scrolls, arguably setting a new standard for eRPGs, has been letting players design their own classes for years. O.L.D., Numenera, Fate Core, Modos RPG...eschewing classes.

Numenera has classes: Nano, Jack, and Glaive. It just calls them a different name. And "everyone else does it" is, I'm afraid, a poor argument - it's entirely possible everyone else is wrong. (Or, more likely, "everyone else" has a particular set of needs that leads to one solution, while we have a different set of needs that might lead to a different solution.)

It looks like D&D Next is bravely pushing forward with more classes. I understand 13th Age is doing so too, but with much more variety (or, just under-playtesting each class?) Did these franchises miss the memo?

Of course, Pathfinder also uses classes (for obvious reasons, given its heritage). And what you seem to have neglected is that while there may be more games that don't use classes than that do, there are vastly more gamers who play games with classes than those that do not - D&D and Pathfinder between them represent an enormous chunk of the market.

What's your take? Are you willing to wave goodbye to classes?

I'm happy to play a game that has classes. I'm happy to play a game that doesn't have classes. I don't really care - as you say, we don't need classes to describe a character, but for some games I do find them useful.

But for D&D, classes are a sacred cow. I doubt I will ever see an edition of D&D that doesn't include classes as the default approach - and if such an edition were to be published, I rather suspect it would be the last edition.

 

[Morrus]

It looks like D&D Next is bravely pushing forward with more classes. I understand 13th Age is doing so too, but with much more variety (or, just under-playtesting each class?) Did these franchises miss the memo?

How curious. The most popular RPG on the planet is a class-based game. The OSR folks talk about a "revolution". The upcoming edition of what may well become the most popular RPG on the planet again is class based (and if it doesn't, it'll be the second most popular for sure). I don't think that constitutes missing the memo; I think that's writing the memo. Itt indicates that many, many thousands of gamers clearly enjoy classes. The fact that there are lots of games without classes doesn't change the fact that more people play games with classes than not.

Classes are just fine. Some folks may like them more or less than others, but as a mechanic they have their strengths and weaknesses just like anything else. They're going to be around for a long time to come. If anyone's missing a memo it's those who've failed to notice that class based games are incredibly popular.

There have always been class based games. There have always been games based on a variety of other mechanics. And there always will be. I least, I hope so; the day we start stamping out certain styles of play is a sad, sad day for the variety of options available to gamers.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

What's your take? Are you willing to wave goodbye to classes?

Nope, I like classes.

Classless systems have their place, but if we're talking D&D (and clones or spin-offs), classes are one of the things that make D&D D&D.