D&D 5E 2022 WoTC Books?


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Azzy

KMF DM
I don't know much about Nic Kelman other than he works for WotC's magic team, was the liaison on this deal, and wrote a book a long time ago that's either in genre with Nabokov's Lolita, as trying to get inside the mind of the monsters (per some reviews I pulled up just now), or else is really, really, REALLY bad erotica.

But that's what that is… fiction. Did Nic Kelman actually do any bad things?
I really wish I could take such a blase look at the book as "REALLY bad erotica", but the book reeks of ephebophilia-apolgia couched in fiction. One defense that Kelman uses is: "Technically, all the girls in the book are legal. They are young women, they are not children. Many of them are precociously sexual and some of them are predatory, too. No one comes out of the book that well.' Sure thing, Nic.

There's a wide gulf between writing fiction and doing things. I do think that if that book was intentionally written as an expression of his world view and fantasies that that could mean that he brought that into his editorial work with the Dragonlance writers in such a way that hurt their work or made them uncomfortable, but this is all speculation. I'm not defending him or WotC, nor do I desire to equivocate or create a false sense of "both sides" - just that these things are complicated and speculation based on our limited information usually leads to demonisation of the other REALLY REALLY fast.

And then that leads to thread-crapping. So let's not use buzz words like the above UNLESS the guy is actually a criminal, right? Maybe I missed it in my puruse of googling him just now. It's quite possible. But if not, then maybe lets pull back on the speculation re: why the deal got on shaky ground?

Especially when this thread is literally about something almost completely unrelated: what D&D sourcebooks we're getting from WotC in 2022. Dragonlance novels are not sourcebooks. They may imply that we get a Dragonlance source book or not as tie-in. But we're getting the novels after all in the end. So really, that tangent is just the fast-lane towards shutting down the thread for no good reason.
Sure, sure, I'm guilty of using hyperbolic shorthand for the ephebophilia-apolgist whose book is extremely distasteful. However, that doesn't dismiss my retort to Paul—which, I will repeat, that according to W&H's legal complaint, everything was progressing swimmingly until WotC replaced their liason with Kelman.
 


Parmandur

Book-Friend
I'm also not sure if there'll be a MTG based one, as the MTG sets we know of don't seem as D&D-able as previous.
2022 is the 30th Anniverof Magic, and they have two of their four main Sets in Dominaria, which was for a long time the only Magic Setting...the world based on the D&D games of the founders of Wizards of the Coast. Very D&D friendly, nostalgia, open enough to allow the writers to make a very modern take on D&D...seems to make good business sense to me.

And Kamigawa brings some cool ideas with magic cyberpunk.
 


2022 is the 30th Anniverof Magic, and they have two of their four main Sets in Dominaria, which was for a long time the only Magic Setting...the world based on the D&D games of the founders of Wizards of the Coast. Very D&D friendly, nostalgia, open enough to allow the writers to make a very modern take on D&D...seems to make good business sense to me.
While its certainly good on that side, the thing is I'm unsure on the basis that the MTG settings we've had thus far are very distinctive as their own thing. Theros is unmistakably different from anything in D&D, same with Strixhaven, and while Ravnica isn't too different, it does hold it in its own ways. I'm unsure if they'd be able to get that much of "Distinct from stock D&D" with Dominaria compared to those. I'm not sure if they'd be willing to blur the lines that much

Kamigawa also runs it into being a bit more of a modern thing which, would certainly be an interesting way to get across that vaguely modern D&D stuff, but I'm equally unsure on that one
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
While its certainly good on that side, the thing is I'm unsure on the basis that the MTG settings we've had thus far are very distinctive as their own thing. Theros is unmistakably different from anything in D&D, same with Strixhaven, and while Ravnica isn't too different, it does hold it in its own ways. I'm unsure if they'd be able to get that much of "Distinct from stock D&D" with Dominaria compared to those. I'm not sure if they'd be willing to blur the lines that much

Kamigawa also runs it into being a bit more of a modern thing which, would certainly be an interesting way to get across that vaguely modern D&D stuff, but I'm equally unsure on that one
I'd honestly say that Ravnica is the most distinct of the three which we have so far. Though I think what you point out about Kamigawa being very different is a point in it's favor: it is "cyberpunk" the same way that Eberron is, because everything runs on magic.

We have 2 Classic Settings coming in 2022, and one appears to be Spelljammer. If the other one is Dark Sun or Planescape, which seems plausible, Dominaria as a more "standard" Setting with a strong product hook seems to fit.
 

I'd honestly say that Ravnica is the most distinct of the three which we have so far. Though I think what you point out about Kamigawa being very different is a point in it's favor: it is "cyberpunk" the same way that Eberron is, because everything runs on magic.

We have 2 Classic Settings coming in 2022, and one appears to be Spelljammer. If the other one is Dark Sun or Planescape, which seems plausible, Dominaria as a more "standard" Setting with a strong product hook seems to fit.

I find new Kamigawa more interesting then Dominaria (although maybe Brother's War set will change my mind), but I think you right if they sneak a MtG setting in it will Dominaria, it just has the bigger market/fan base and it's just too core to the MtG setting and identity not to do.

I am curious what kind of fiction the Brother's War set will have given it is a card set for a story that has already been told (in a novel by FR's own Jeff Grubbs that I hear is one of the best in MtG history), unlike all the rest of the sets with a particular setting next year. Maybe they will do some fiction for Unfinity and Battle For Baldur's Gate or extra fiction for Dominaria United instead.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
I find new Kamigawa more interesting then Dominaria (although maybe Brother's War set will change my mind), but I think you right if they sneak a MtG setting in it will Dominaria, it just has the bigger market/fan base and it's just too core to the MtG setting and identity not to do.

I am curious what kind of fiction the Brother's War set will have given it is a card set for a story that has already been told (in a novel by FR's own Jeff Grubbs that I hear is one of the best in MtG history), unlike all the rest of the sets with a particular setting next year. Maybe they will do some fiction for Unfinity and Battle For Baldur's Gate or extra fiction for Dominaria United instead.
Well, if I had to hazard a guess: time travel.
 

Marandahir

Crown-Forester (he/him)
I really wish I could take such a blase look at the book as "REALLY bad erotica", but the book reeks of ephebophilia-apolgia couched in fiction. One defense that Kelman uses is: "Technically, all the girls in the book are legal. They are young women, they are not children. Many of them are precociously sexual and some of them are predatory, too. No one comes out of the book that well.' Sure thing, Nic.


Sure, sure, I'm guilty of using hyperbolic shorthand for the ephebophilia-apolgist whose book is extremely distasteful. However, that doesn't dismiss my retort to Paul—which, I will repeat, that according to W&H's legal complaint, everything was progressing swimmingly until WotC replaced their liason with Kelman.
Sure. I agree it's extremely distasteful, and if I understand you right, could be propping up and supporting grooming/predatory behaviour in its reader base. It also could just be fiction, and fiction is NOT the same thing as reality, as horrible as the acts depicted are.

But again, I know next to nothing about the guy, so I'm really not trying to dismiss your critique of him or his book. I was spitting out just what came up from googling him for 30 minutes and writing a post before I had to run to work, because these things do seem to get heated with speculation about the causes and whatnot.

The fact of the matter is, we've got the Dragonlance books coming out after all, and there's no reason to think that all that drama should prevent them from releasing a Dragonlance Setting Guide IF WotC so chooses. And ONLY if they choose. I doubt they're doing more than Fizban's. THAT's the Dragonlance book, imho. But this Nic guy's book he wrote a long time ago is VERY tangential to whether Dragonlance is one of the 2022 settings. In fact, I think it's non-material.
 
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Marandahir

Crown-Forester (he/him)
While its certainly good on that side, the thing is I'm unsure on the basis that the MTG settings we've had thus far are very distinctive as their own thing. Theros is unmistakably different from anything in D&D, same with Strixhaven, and while Ravnica isn't too different, it does hold it in its own ways. I'm unsure if they'd be able to get that much of "Distinct from stock D&D" with Dominaria compared to those. I'm not sure if they'd be willing to blur the lines that much

Kamigawa also runs it into being a bit more of a modern thing which, would certainly be an interesting way to get across that vaguely modern D&D stuff, but I'm equally unsure on that one

I find new Kamigawa more interesting then Dominaria (although maybe Brother's War set will change my mind), but I think you right if they sneak a MtG setting in it will Dominaria, it just has the bigger market/fan base and it's just too core to the MtG setting and identity not to do.

I am curious what kind of fiction the Brother's War set will have given it is a card set for a story that has already been told (in a novel by FR's own Jeff Grubbs that I hear is one of the best in MtG history), unlike all the rest of the sets with a particular setting next year. Maybe they will do some fiction for Unfinity and Battle For Baldur's Gate or extra fiction for Dominaria United instead.
Now that I've spent my time in this thread arguing against speculation, I'm going to do some speculating too, though perhaps less of the tangential kind:

I highly doubt we're getting Kamigawa. That's another Oriental Adventures quagmire waiting to happen. It was written by White guys, for an American card game. It's a bag of worms they're not going to open up any time soon, as cool as some of the concepts were.

Also, Moonfolk can already be modeled with Haregon, so the main character option draw to that setting is already in the game as is.
 
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Parmandur

Book-Friend
Now that I've spent my time in this thread arguing against speculation, I'm going to do some speculating too, though perhaps less of the tangential kind:

I highly doubt we're getting Kamigawa. That's another Oriental Adventures quagmire waiting to happen. It was written by White guys, for an American card game. It's a bag of worms they're not going to open up any time soon, as cool as some of the concepts were.

Also, Moonfolk can already be modeled with Haregon, so the main character option draw to that setting is already in the game as is.
Talking about the new version of the Setti g coming put in a couple months.
 


And Kamigawa brings some cool ideas with magic cyberpunk.
This sounds really interesting, and given WotC is clearly interested in pushing D&D in new directions, quite plausible.
I highly doubt we're getting Kamigawa. That's another Oriental Adventures quagmire waiting to happen. It was written by White guys, for an American card game. It's a bag of worms they're not going to open up any time soon, as cool as some of the concepts were.
I'm sure WotC has had it's cultural consultants working overtime on the upcoming MtG set. No worries in that department.
Of course there will also be a Summer Adventure in time for summer to end in Septemeber like usual.
This is an important point. Adventure-Writer-in-Chief Chris Perkins must be working on something, and Netherdeep isn't his. My guess is it will be FR - something more conventional to balance the wild and wacky stuff that has been coming out. I also think it will involve at least one of the new surface drow cities - why add them to the lore if you aren't going to do anything with them? I also think it will be set a long way from the Sword Coast - I suspect "orcs on the other side of Faerun have a different culture" was more than just a hypothetical. I think the antipodes of the Sword Coast is in Kara-Tur, but that is probably too literal. I'll settle for "a long way away".

In terms of number of books, it's worth noting that Monsters of the Multiverse is a delayed 2021 book, and therefore doesn't count.
 
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Marandahir

Crown-Forester (he/him)
Talking about the new version of the Setti g coming put in a couple months.
There's a new version of Kamigawa coming? Is it actually written this time at least in part by people whose cultures it was appropriating?

This is news to me! I see now the Neon Dynasty set coming this first quarter of 2022.

That makes Kamigawa significantly more likely for the 2022 MtG book, though again, would be interested to learn more about the setting designers and who they have on staff for writing/editing/cultural consulting etc.

I also wouldn't be surprised if New Capenna (Q2) was designed as a whole new Magic world to tie-in with D&D, much like Strixhaven was.
 

Okay, I've had another look at the map an Osse is actually on the opposite side of the world to the Sword Coast. Aussie orcs - what could possibly go wrong!
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
There's a new version of Kamigawa coming? Is it actually written this time at least in part by people whose cultures it was appropriating?

This is news to me! I see now the Neon Dynasty set coming this first quarter of 2022.

That makes Kamigawa significantly more likely for the 2022 MtG book, though again, would be interested to learn more about the setting designers and who they have on staff for writing/editing/cultural consulting etc.

I also wouldn't be surprised if New Capenna (Q2) was designed as a whole new Magic world to tie-in with D&D, much like Strixhaven was.
Yeah, I dunno how well that will shake out, but new Kamigawa does seem a ripe possibility. New Capenna is hard to say, since we know so little about it, but after the Strixhaven book WotC might well do anything.
 

In terms of number of books, it's worth noting that Monsters of the Multiverse is a delayed 2021 book, and therefore doesn't count.
I love the continued "this book doesn't count." by the end of 2022 WotC will have either published zero books are like a half-dozen, and both groups will be right within their own head space.
Hasbro will consider it the larger number, not zero, as they'll be making tens of millions of dollars on books that ENWorld posters insist don't count.
 

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