D&D 5E 2024 D&D is 2014 D&D with 4E sprinkled on top

[SteveC]

There are some significant lore changes in 5.5 as well, judging by the new MM, so that part reminds me of 4e as well.

This is one of those things that are heresy, but I did enjoy the changes to how the Planes and the cosmos were setup in 4E. Feel free to reject my opinions outright on that accord.

 

[Reynard]

I mean...Bloodied is fine. Its a mechanic as old as time, and certainly not a '4e-ism'.

Can you show where something akin to "bloodied" was used in D&D prior to 4E, or even used in a game that was widely played prior to 4E?

I mean, "wound penalties" are as old as time, but that isn't really what bloodied is.

 

[Scribe]

Can you show where something akin to "bloodied" was used in D&D prior to 4E, or even used in a game that was widely played prior to 4E?

I mean, "wound penalties" are as old as time, but that isn't really what bloodied is.

I'm not saying D&D, I'm saying in the space of gaming, an enemy that behaves in a different manner at a wound threshold is nothing, it's been in side scrolling games since forever.

But my understanding of bloodied may be off.

 

[Joshua Randall]

4e Stealth required an entire fan-made FAQ to make sense of.

The Rules Of Hidden Club: Targeting things you can't see in D&D.

The Rules Of Hidden Club: Things you can't see and things you can't find, in D&D. Knowing what you can and can't see, and what you can and can't target, and knowing when you get to say "I aim at the invisible guy in that square" versus "I don't know where he is, I'll just guess", is very...

www.dyasdesigns.com

—

But yeah, the Bloodied condition and few monster powers that have condition riders do not make 5e into 4e. The entire ethos of 5e makes it a different game. Which is fine.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Well, I am glad bloodied is back, though I wouldn’t have called it one of the best parts of 4e. Weapon masteries are neat, but they are definitely not 4e at-will powers. And we are definitely seeing more 4e influence on monster design, which I do think is a good thing, though we’re also seeing some new monster design choices that I’m not as much of a fan of. Overall I’d say 5e post 2024 revisions still mostly takes superficial elements from 4e and doesn’t take much of anything from 4e’s actual design philosophy.

This exactly.

Like...if 5.0 had a 0.1 mm thick candy shell of 4e surrounding a 2 cm diameter chocolate filling of altered/modified 3e rules, then 5.5e has a 0.2 mm thick candy shell instead. It's still VASTLY more 3e-like than 4e-like. Even though that's 2.02x as much candy shell as there was before....it's still >94% chocolate by volume.

 

[dave2008]

This exactly.

Like...if 5.0 had a 0.1 mm thick candy shell of 4e surrounding a 2 cm diameter chocolate filling of altered/modified 3e rules, then 5.5e has a 0.2 mm thick candy shell instead. It's still VASTLY more 3e-like than 4e-like. Even though that's 2.02x as much candy shell as there was before....it's still >94% chocolate by volume.

You would need at least 2 layers (one 3e and one 4e) around the 1e/2e core to make that analogy hold true. So maybe 5e = 2cm 1e/2e core, 4mm 3e, 1-2 mm 4e, & 1mm 5e non-nutritive varnish

However, what I like about that analogy is the oversized impact of those candy shells. I mean they are what separates MMs from chocolate chips after all!

 

[Joshua Randall]

What if it’s a candy core coated with chocolate? An anti-M&M, if you will.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

You would need at least 2 layers (one 3e and one 4e) around the 1e/2e core to make that analogy hold true. So maybe 5e = 2cm 1e/2e core, 4mm 3e, 1-2 mm 4e, & 1mm 5e non-nutritive varnish

However, what I like about that analogy is the oversized impact of those candy shells. I mean they are what separates MMs from chocolate chips after all!

There's almost nothing actually from 2e in 5e. The only thing that's even partially similar is subclasses and kits.

I really don't understand why so many people insist that 2e is hugely informing what 5e is. Where are the mechanics? It's not THAC0. It doesn't have the obscure, abstruse save categories of 2e. 2e emphatically did not do "bounded accuracy". 2e had tons of weird, idiosyncratic rules with no analogue today. Multiclass rules are absolutely nothing whatever like 2e's.

Where is the 2e in 5e?

 

[EzekielRaiden]

What if it’s a candy core coated with chocolate? An anti-M&M, if you will.

While theoretically possible, generally unlikely. If it's hard candy it's going to be a chocolate covered jawbreaker which is....rare, to say the least. If it's soft candy, such things do exist, but are generally considered chocolates, e.g. truffles or cherry cordials.

 

[dave2008]

There's almost nothing actually from 2e in 5e. The only thing that's even partially similar is subclasses and kits.

I really don't understand why so many people insist that 2e is hugely informing what 5e is. Where are the mechanics? It's not THAC0. It doesn't have the obscure, abstruse save categories of 2e. 2e emphatically did not do "bounded accuracy". 2e had tons of weird, idiosyncratic rules with no analogue today. Multiclass rules are absolutely nothing whatever like 2e's.

Where is the 2e in 5e?

You will notice I said 1e/2e not just 2e. I consider 1e/2e the same edition. aka the chocolate core. The majority of 5e, like 4e, and 3e comes from the origins of the game (1e/2e).